Uh, Oh... looks like the EV tax credits are hitting an obstacle

[sotek2345]

If it helps....with respect to EVs..Dems should just tell Manchin more EVs will create more need for power. (In WV that means coal). If there's anything Manchin likes more than Big Oil it is Big Coal.

Heck - throw an incentive in for coal powered cars. it isn't like anybody would build them!

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[gorwell]

If it helps....with respect to EVs..Dems should just tell Manchin more EVs will create more need for power. (In WV that means coal). If there's anything Manchin likes more than Big Oil it is Big Coal.

Dems could likely offer to pay every Coal employee in WV $1 million dollars as an exchange for sunsetting coal production over time (and other programs Machin squashed), and he probably would do a hard pass. He's beholden to a greater power than actually helping his constituents. Honestly, someone should offer it -- it's chump change based on the need to phase out coal as much as possible this decade.

It's 11 Billion dollars to buy off all Coal workers in WV, that's <2% of annual US defense spending, and <1% of proposed price tags for BBB.

DOD already considers climate change a major threat, they should use some of that money to actually defend the US from a threat.

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Oct/21/2002877353/-1/-1/0/DOD-CLIMATE-RISK-ANALYSIS-FINAL.PDF

"unpredictable extreme weather conditions caused by climate change are
exacerbating existing risks and creating new security challenges for U.S. interests. "

"Climate change touches most of what this Department does, and this threat will continue to have worsening implications for U.S. national security. "

 

[greenne]

As a related aside....the BBB does extend the Solar Credit for another 10yrs at 30%. That would help increase the adoption of solar to power EVs.

 

[TF1000]

I believe in climate change. Otherwise, living in Michigan, I'd be underneath a glacier right now.

This might actually be not too far off. In the late 1800s it was described how CO2 influences the climate and that burning fossil fuels could lead to a global warming. When a prediction of another ice age was coming some were hoping greenhouse gases might help to avoid it. Maybe they got what they wanted?

I learned about global warming after reading a book on planetary science (1977-1978?). The chapter on Venus was especially scary. Thankfully the chemistry of our atmosphere is different enough that it won't get that bad.

 

[jefro]

Just like all science it is true as long as your side said it.

I have no idea if EV's help the planet to be honest. Too many variables.

Pretty sure solar panels are still taking more energy to produce than they will ever return. They are being dumped by (un-named country) that used massive hydro power to create them. Otherwise you'd see all sorts of PV cells being produced by factories that only have PV on top the factory.

I do however LOVE the thermal electric like Spain and Morocco is using. Using the heat of the sun in the desert and shipping electricity to far lands is great news. Why they don't have them in the US I can't say. Plenty of hot areas here. Only a few built to test the process.

However, there is no free lunch. It's easier to conserve than it is to create energy.

 

[MickeyAO]

However, there is no free lunch. It's easier to conserve than it is to create energy.

You may want to review the first law of thermodynamics.

 

[Snakebitten]

I understood what he meant.
It's easier to just cut your energy use than it is to create the energy we are overconsuming. Why would that not be a reasonable statement?

 

[sotek2345]

I understood what he meant.
It's easier to just cut your energy use than it is to create the energy we are overconsuming. Why would that not be a reasonable statement?

Because you can't create energy - everything we use is taken from somewhere else.

 

[TF1000]

You may want to review the first law of thermodynamics.

Ummm...that quote was Jefro's not mine.

 

[jefro]

You may mean.
" the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant; it is said to be conserved over time "

If energy was free then why do I get a bill every month??

 

[astricklin]

Just like all science it is true as long as your side said it.

This is not how science works at all. Science is true because it can be observed, measured, and verified. I can do an experiment or make an observation and then you can run that same experiment or make the same observations and we will both have the same outcomes. Then many many others can do the same things and they will also have the same outcomes. This is how we get scientific fact.
Now the conclusions we make or actions we take based upon those outcomes can be subject to individual bias or opinions. But the outcome itself, the 'science', is true no matter what anybody says unless they can show outcomes from an experiment or observation that proves otherwise.

 

[FordLightning]

This is not how science works at all. Science is true because it can be observed, measured, and verified. I can do an experiment or make an observation and then you can run that same experiment or make the same observations and we will both have the same outcomes. Then many many others can do the same things and they will also have the same outcomes. This is how we get scientific fact.
Now the conclusions we make or actions we take based upon those outcomes can be subject to individual bias or opinions. But the outcome itself, the 'science', is true no matter what anybody says unless they can show outcomes from an experiment or observation that proves otherwise.

Science is not just “facts”, it also includes theories and hypothesis. Scientists believed the earth was flat and electricity was juice; they guessed wrong on the direction of electricity, etc.

Science is not even capable of creation of a simple life form such as a worm, or guessing my weather perfectly a week in advance. Science is much more limited than your perception of it.

 

[MikePinkston]

Looking at your sidebar/profile thing, you have a deposit on a Ford Lightning? How did you do that? All I could do was get a reservation.

 

[rydfree]

Looking at your sidebar/profile thing, you have a deposit on a Ford Lightning? How did you do that? All I could do was get a reservation.

I also have a deposit on a Ford Lightning . It's called a reservation until I actually place the order but it is definitely for a Lightning .

 

[Whiskey]

When we reach the greenhouse gas reductions necessary for survival, then we can stop subsidizing EV’s and other solutions.

OMG….EaglesPdX, please tell us all when that may occur. I’m waiting anxiously to here from you, the expert among us all, on greenhouse gases. How much of our tax dollars must we spend, to make the changes you are suggesting? What kind of lifestyle will our Grandkids live, when more than half they earn go directly to the Government in taxes, to repay for these subsidies? And, don’t feed me the Kool-aid your drinking that might suggest; “There will be no world for them to live in”. I’m not drinking it!

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