Invited After Transferring to ZEV State Dealer

[Ruination]

Yeah - but I think the former / current "base" (XL, minimal options, no appearance options, black plastic bumpers) truck buyers are the ones who the Pro should be targeted at.

I don't believe m(any) people buy the "base" truck as their primary personal vehicle. Sure, maybe if you're an independent general contractor / handyman, you might do it so that you can beat the hell out of it and have something else fun / nice / exciting to drive on the evenings & weekends.

I'd imagine that anyone who's looking for a "full size pickup on a budget" opts for an STX, or Chrome Appearance Package, or something.

Ford is "frustrating" people, and flirting with the "bait & switch" territory with the Pro Truck coming in at $40k, but not making a ton available for people to buy as "the entry level truck" -- because that's obviously not what they want it to be.

To me, I think they needed to be clearer as to what the Pro was -- the work truck, and personally, I would have deleted the rear seat (or made it optional) to make it all that much clearer. It should have been "you can get one for $40k for you or your staff to beat on", or you can get one you'll like for low 50s.

I think you would be surprised.

I 100% was in the market for an XL Supercab 4x4 6 1/2 STX before I got my lightning invite.

I treat trucks like trucks. A scratch is a lot more easy to cope with if it's the cheap one.

We don't all have baby soft skin.

I'll love the XLT. But I woulda loved a $300 less car payment more.

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[jfried]

I think you would be surprised.

I 100% was in the market for an XL Supercab 4x4 6 1/2 STX before I got my lightning invite.

I treat trucks like trucks. A scratch is a lot more easy to cope with if it's the cheap one.

We don't all have baby soft skin.

I'll love the XLT. But I woulda loved a $300 less car payment more.

So you were in the market for an STX... which kind of makes my point... once somebody goes STX, or really any appearance package on an XL; it's no longer "basic work truck", but rather, somebody's personal vehicle.

I don't believe the Pro was "Designed for you as a buyer"... I believe the whole concept for the Pro is that of a work-truck, a open-box version of the E Transit.... the XLT is the real "entry level consumer truck".

Personally, I don't think Ford needs to, or should be competing in the ~$40-45k consumer truck market with the Lightning, at least to start. There's absolutely no competition in, or anywhere near the space, they already have overwhelming demand.

Fleet is a little bit different, they're talking about all of these "centrally managed" services deeply integrated services that fleets can take advantage of. There's a huge advantage if you can get customers onto "the ford platform"; as it makes it that much more prohibitive for them to bring in another brand when they do eventually come.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Where is everyone seeing the Rivian being $10K less than the Lightning?

$65k for the Rivian and $75K for the Lariat XL ER(?). There's a price list up somewhere and for the 300 mile F150 the config I picked was $75.

The Rivian covers a of the same options standard AWD, 314 mile range, 11k tow, 1700 payload.

Nice part of the Rivian reservation is you config the truck as you want it.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Ironically the biggest complaint on the Rivian forums is lack of communication.

Can't answer for the irony, all my emails were answered that day. There's no one to email for Ford.

 

[TF1000]

Personally, I don't think Ford needs to, or should be competing in the ~$40-45k consumer truck market with the Lightning, at least to start. There's absolutely no competition in, or anywhere near the space, they already have overwhelming demand.

Do you own a lot of Ford stock and are trying to maximize your investment?

The PRO is plenty truck for me. It's not about the cost (I can easily afford a Platinum) but why buy stuff you don't want. Heck I don't even use AC unless my dog looks hot.

 

[jfried]

Do you own a lot of Ford stock and are trying to maximize your investment?

The PRO is plenty truck for me. It's not about the cost (I can easily afford a Platinum) but why buy stuff you don't want. Heck I don't even use AC unless my dog looks hot.

No, but I've always liked the brand and want to see them succeed.

I also think it's useful to try and provide some perspective as to why Ford might make the Pro so unattainable. It probably doesn't make them a ton / any money if an individual buys one at $40k.

However, if you've got a reasonably big fleet customer (say 30+ vehicles on the road) that starts converting their fleet to Lightnings and eTransits, there is an incredible opportunity for Ford to build a subscription-based, incredibly integrated connected vehicle platform that provides Ford with recurring revenue year after year.

That same holds true for a smaller business, that has 6-10 trucks on the road, that doesn't classify/qualify as a "fleet customer" because they just buy 1-2 trucks a year from their local dealership to refresh the fleet over 4-5 years.

If there's no real long term opportunity to make money, why sell trucks at $40k when you can put another ~$2500 worth of "stuff" in them (body colour bumpers, cloth interior, lighting, some additional sensors) and sell them for $52k? It's not like if you don't have a $40k one available, that customer is going to go buy Chevy's $40k electric truck.

As I had mentioned earlier in the thread. They needed to make clearer who they wanted buying these Pro trucks. Personally, I would've taken the rear seat out (or made it optional) and left it for upfitters to outfit with toolboxes and such. I don't believe they sell many base gas trucks in either super cab or supercrew combos.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

No, but I've always liked the brand and want to see them succeed.

I also think it's useful to try and provide some perspective as to why Ford might make the Pro so unattainable. It probably doesn't make them a ton / any money if an individual buys one at $40k.

However, if you've got a reasonably big fleet customer (say 30+ vehicles on the road) that starts converting their fleet to Lightnings and eTransits, there is an incredible opportunity for Ford to build a subscription-based, incredibly integrated connected vehicle platform that provides Ford with recurring revenue year after year.

That same holds true for a smaller business, that has 6-10 trucks on the road, that doesn't classify/qualify as a "fleet customer" because they just buy 1-2 trucks a year from their local dealership to refresh the fleet over 4-5 years.

If there's no real long term opportunity to make money, why sell trucks at $40k when you can put another ~$2500 worth of "stuff" in them (body colour bumpers, cloth interior, lighting, some additional sensors) and sell them for $52k? It's not like if you don't have a $40k one available, that customer is going to go buy Chevy's $40k electric truck.

As I had mentioned earlier in the thread. They needed to make clearer who they wanted buying these Pro trucks. Personally, I would've taken the rear seat out (or made it optional) and left it for upfitters to outfit with toolboxes and such. I don't believe they sell many base gas trucks in either super cab or supercrew combos.

I think your last point is a valid one. Not sure if anyone at Ford is aware of this, but it would certainly cut down on some of the confusion and disappointment if they made it more clear who their intended customers for the various trims are. They probably should do so at least going forward, starting with MY 2023.

 

[sotek2345]

I think your last point is a valid one. Not sure if anyone at Ford is aware of this, but it would certainly cut down on some of the confusion and disappointment if they made it more clear who their intended customers for the various trims are. They probably should do so at least going forward, starting with MY 2023.

I mean they called it the "Pro" model, stated several times that it was intended for commercial customers, limited the ER battery to fleet orders, and also said that the consumer level truck would start around $53k (XLT). To me it was very well communicated.

 

[jfried]

I mean they called it the "Pro" model, stated several times that it was intended for commercial customers, limited the ER battery to fleet orders, and also said that the consumer level truck would start around $53k (XLT). To me it was very well communicated.

Yeah, I think they certainly tried... as you mentioned, it's called the Pro, not the XL. It cannot be optioned with body-coloured bumpers. No carpet. It has vinyl seats. It cannot be optioned with the signature LED look.

The problem is -- they obviously didn't go far enough -- as you still have people wanting to buy it as "the entry level truck" because of how cheap it is.

They could have gone further by removing, or making the rear seats a $1000 option, and "inspiring" creativity amongst their customers as to how they might take advantage of the interior space the quad cab provides, even if it's only ever going to be 1 guy driving it. Obviously they wanted to hit a price-point so that the average company-decision maker says "whoa, I can really do that??", but perhaps they should have bundled it with a free year of whatever the connected vehicle management service is.... again just to make clear -- this is for commercial customers, big and small. Heck, they could have restricted it to say "this must be registered in a company name", whereas X plan must be registered in an individual name.

Even if it would be difficult to enforce the last one, just saying it might help convey what the truck is.

 

[PA Lightning]

If they did not have the Pro, I would not be buying the Lightning. At the current price point, it makes a perfect hunting camp, kick around, vehicle.
Limited range would prevent me from having the Lightning as my only truck.

 

[TF1000]

They didn't need to remove the rear seat to get individuals not to buy it. They could have said it was for fleet only (like the PRO extended range version) from the beginning. They didn't do that and that's why we're having this discussion. What's your opinion on why they didn't say that from the beginning? I have my suspicions.

Also the line between a professional and an individual is often blurred. I'll be using it as a farm truck but not exclusively.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

I mean they called it the "Pro" model, stated several times that it was intended for commercial customers, limited the ER battery to fleet orders, and also said that the consumer level truck would start around $53k (XLT). To me it was very well communicated.

And when asked, they also said, several times, that the Pro is available to retail customers. Muddying the waters, needlessly. They wanted all the free press, and buyer enthusiasm, for something they really had no intention to make available to everyone. Certainly not the crime of the century, but it could’ve been handled much better with a little more honesty.

 

[jfried]

They didn't need to remove the rear seat to get individuals not to buy it. They could have said it was for fleet only (like the PRO extended range version) from the beginning. They didn't do that and that's why we're having this discussion. What's your opinion on why they didn't say that from the beginning? I have my suspicions.

Also the line between a professional and an individual is often blurred. I'll be using it as a farm truck but not exclusively.

Fleet has a very specific definition in Ford's world. I believe you have to be registered as a "fleet customer", and purchase / operate a minimum number of vehicles at the same time in order to get to that level.

Your local power utility, or telco is going to qualify as a fleet customer. They've got dozens of vehicles on the road. They've got a "standard" replacement schedule, and will just routinely refresh vehicles based on a formula.

On the flip side, there are probably a lot more businesses, like maybe a local HVAC/mechanical company -- they've got 5 or 6 trucks on the road. When a truck starts to get a little rough or unreliable, they go to their local dealer and buy 1 or 2, not a dozen. These small businesses certainly fall within the target for the Pro, even if they aren't "fleet" purchases.

There's a 3rd grouping as well -- which is the sole proprietor who needs his "work truck", and probably closest to where your "Farm truck" application lies.


Ford likely wants / needs to get the "sample" Pros into the hands of the "fleet" customers, and the "small business" customers because of the potential for recurring revenue. Convert 1 truck to a pro today, convert the rest in a year or two. The farm truck application likely suits the pro, but like the sole proprietor's work truck, it really shouldn't be a priority for Ford right now.

Maybe it was as simple as putting a (likely unenforcable from a practical standpoint) that the truck must be registered in a company name to start. At least it would make clear that "Yes, we can build one for $40k to excite the business customers, but if this is your personal vehicle, it really starts at $52k.

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