Inflation Reduction Act -- MSRP Cap x F150 Lightning 2023 MSRP Conjecture - Extended Range (ER) under $80K possible?

[rdr854]

RDR, what about the statement within the article that "while a 3rd wave of invitations will follow in Mid-September for all other unconverted reservation holders". Those of us holding reservations shouldn't we be consider "unconverted" ?

I think that it is poor wording in the article. For instance I have a reservation for a second Lightning that I made at the end of October 2021 that has not been converted to an order because I was not invited to order. If, under the terms of the article, I would be eligible for the private offer, it would make any price increase meaningless since all reservation holders would seemingly be entitled to price protection. That certainly is not Ford's intention (nor should it be).

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[Amps]

Given the laws around MSRP, franchises, Monroney Reporting, etc., I have zero confidence whether Ford even had a choice in this matter to create separate MSRPs for identical vehicles of the same MY - do you have any familiarity?

No chapter and verse familiarity, but I think this is also required for sales tax purposes in my state, which collects on gross vehicle price.

 

[Snappy22]

NJ state EV rebate uses the trim base price plus factory options as MSRP definition. Delivery is excluded and dealer installed options are excluded.

 

[ExCivilian]

No chapter and verse familiarity, but I think this is also required for sales tax purposes in my state, which collects on gross vehicle price.

There is nothing "required" about Ford's behavior. It's not my job to do their legwork but here's just one possible solution: send the "private offers" to the customers in the form of a certificate applicable to a Lighting purchase at the dealership of one's choice. Done.

Instead we're getting fed this crap from Ford that they're as powerless as we are as they stand on the sidelines wringing their hands--meanwhile coming up with a myriad of ways to coerce retail customers to fight at the trough with dealerships.

 

[cvalue13]

send the "private offers" to the customers in the form of a certificate applicable to a Lighting purchase at the dealership of one's choice. Done.

so the dealership can add an ADM equal to the “certificate”?

 

[cvalue13]

Oh well. Perhaps the next inflection point in this fanciful thought will be seeing a window sticker for someone with an order that deleted the onboard scales, to see how that credit is reflected on the window sticker

Anyone yet with a window sticker for a unit with ”removed” standard items (e.g., a platinum without the seats, or a unit with the scales removed)?

 

[ExCivilian]

Anyone yet with a window sticker for a unit with ”removed” standard items (e.g., a platinum without the seats, or a unit with the scales removed)?

I posted a window sticker of a Lariat with the scales removed in Post #5.

 

[cvalue13]

I posted a window sticker of a Lariat with the scales removed in Post #5.

i had missed that, thanks!

for purposes of this (admittedly fantastical) post’s conjecture, it’s frustrating/surprising that it shows under “optional” equipment.

I wonder what happens when both (1) there’s no other optional equipment, and (2) the “standard” equipment is deleted by order by the dealership

If the XLT ER ends up irreparably out of the tax credit by a mere ~$900, that’s a real kick in the ding-ding

 

[ExCivilian]

I wonder what happens when both (1) there’s no other optional equipment, and (2) the “standard” equipment is deleted by order by the dealership

I think this is about as close to a perfect example of what you're looking for as we're going to get:

 

[cvalue13]

I think this is about as close to a perfect example of what you're looking for as we're going to get:

Seems so!

In which case. I’d say it is totally possible to construct aN XLT ER that comes in under $80K

Question is, aside from scales (-$650), what other option(s) totaling -$326 are getting deleted to reach that $79,999 MSRP?

Would be almost satisfying to submit that MSRP on one’s taxes!

 

[JBauer]

From everything I’ve heard the 7.5k is split into two parts. 50% for battery assembly in the USA, and 50% for battery materials in the USA.

When the credit goes into effect in 2023, a majority of cars will have NO credit, (Kia, BMW, Audi, Porsche, etc), and a few will have $3750 (GM, possibly Ford) for battery assembly. No one is currently souring battery materials in the US, and it will take some years to build that capacity.

 

[cvalue13]

From everything I’ve heard the 7.5k is split into two parts. 50% for battery assembly in the USA, and 50% for battery materials in the USA.

This is roughly true, but with important modification: the critical materials requirement provides that a specified portion of the materials contained in the battery must be extracted or processed in the U.S. or a country with which the United States has a free trade agreement or that they be recycled in North America. The threshold for critical materials in 2023 is 40%.

That manufacturing/materials be permitted to be sourced from the ~22 free trade partners was essentially a requirement of the law, lest the law itself violate the U.S.’s free trade agreements

When the credit goes into effect in 2023, a majority of cars will have NO credit, (Kia, BMW, Audi, Porsche, etc), and a few will have $3750 (GM, possibly Ford) for battery assembly. No one is currently souring battery materials in the US, and it will take some years to build that capacity.

While this seems a likely outcome, the technical answer is that it is not currently possible to predict with exactness which companies will be able to comply with either element of the battery qualifications - the reason being that the IRS is yet to make its interpretive guidance on how exactly it will interpret and implement these portions of the law.

Fort the next several months, companies and interest groups will be lobbying the IRS to influence its interpretations and ultimate implementation of the battery qualifications.

No clue how this comes out

 

[TaxmanHog]

Fort the next several months, companies and interest groups will be lobbying the IRS to influence its interpretations and ultimate implementation of the battery qualifications.

No clue how this comes out

Subscribe to "Guidewire", if you would like to hear about up coming changes from the horses mouth vs. EV industry digests weeks later.

https://public.govdelivery.com/accounts/USIRS/subscriber/new

 

[cvalue13]

Subscribe to "Guidewire", if you would like to hear about up coming changes from the horses mouth vs. EV industry digests weeks later.

https://public.govdelivery.com/accounts/USIRS/subscriber/new

done, thank you!

 

[ExCivilian]

No one is currently souring battery materials in the US, and it will take some years to build that capacity.

Let's remember these laws aren't passed in vacuums and the major players, or their lobbyists however you want to say it, have a tremendous amount of input on the process. These conversations were taking place at least as early as Trump's administration (Trump meeting with tech and automotive CEOs was widely publicized but that's not to say they weren't meeting with Obama and Bush before him, etc.) and much of where everyone believed/wanted the industry/nation to head was eventually codified into the BBB. That was discussed for about a year before culminating into our current law.

VAG has already announced they're collaborating with Canadian sources for the ID4 batteries. I would be surprised if Ford doesn't already have a similar deal...surprised if *any* manufacturers didn't have one by now. I doubt anyone is starting from ground zero. Even the foreign manufacturers have been building out domestic production capacity in the past couple years so it's either one big coincidence or everyone who was paying attention knew we were going to end up here.

So while it does take years for these things to fully materialize the process has already been underway for some time. Also, no member of Congress, regardless of how "radical" they may seem or fashion themselves to be, wants to (or even could) torpedo American industry.

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