Being asked to stop and chat about the Lightning

[Blainestang]

You should also note some dealers did this, some dealers did not so its not exactly correct to characterize it as a "ton".

I said "allowed" dealers to do this. I didn't say they ALL did it, or did it to the maximum possible amount.

Either way, even if only half of dealers did it and only did it for a median number of slots (1500 dealers x 10 prioritizations), that would be the whole first year's production worth of people skipping the line.

Furthermore, whether dealers did it or not, Ford was fine with allowing a TON of people to skip the line, and made it officially allowable, so the perception of them being fine with people cutting the line is accurate. And further to my point of bad communication, there are many dealers who won't communicate to people where they are in line, or purposely give bad info, so many people have little reason to believe their dealer is giving them accurate info and hasn't let a bunch of people jump in front of them.

So, many people who haven't been invited yet have the feeling that they might have gotten bumped by dealer prioritization.

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[T i h o r]

I get asked about the Lightning almost daily, and don't mind it at all tbh.

I think of it as an honour to be amongst the first to receive one, and am happy to share any and all info I can. There's no better way to promote these trucks, or even EV's in general!

 

[FlasherZ]

It's nothing like the first few months of driving Tesla Model S (2012) or X (2016), where people were swerving all around me on the Interstate so they could get pictures of it... or when I'd come out of a store and find 15-20 people standing around, looking at it.

To the non-trained eye, it looks like just another Ford truck, Ford has done a great job with changing grilles every year, so it just blends in. I get two types of people asking me questions -- the ones who have been following Lightning and may even have a reservation themselves, and the people who notice something slightly different (or watch me put something in the frunk).

The first group already knows the basic stuff about it and they just want to know how I got one, how it rides, what am I seeing for range, etc. The second group is asking all the usual questions - how far does it go, how fast does it charge, what do you do when you want to go on a trip, etc.

I don't mind it, I'm used to it from the Tesla experience.

 

[kenfaber62]

How specifically did you remove the "LIGHTNING" lettering from the rear sides of the truck? I would like to do the same, but I'll just leave the "T" on both sides - I just don't want to scar up my truck when I do it.

 

[beatle]

I've had my truck for 5 weeks, just over 2k miles. Only 4 encounters:

1. Guy in a grocery store parking lot recognized it and asked me how I liked it and how much it was.
2. Lady in a grocery store parking lot saw me loading groceries into the frunk and was flipped out (in a good way).
3. Talked to a Nikola driver at an EA station.
4. Guy in a Wendy's tripped over the curb looking at it.

I kinda like that it flies under the radar as a special truck.

 

[newF150]

My wife as well, and she will not take kindly to people asking how much it is , she finds things like that very rude and may take people walking up to her as a threat, could get ugly

The only thing she could probably answer is how it rides.

I have a Mach E and sometimes if she's waiting outside the store for me people would come up and pepper her with these same questions. She would say I don't know, ask my husband.

 

[newF150]

How specifically did you remove the "LIGHTNING" lettering from the rear sides of the truck? I would like to do the same, but I'll just leave the "T" on both sides - I just don't want to scar up my truck when I do it.

Look up debadging a car. There are some videos and articles.

https://www.wikihow.com/Debadge-Your-Car
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Debadging+a+Car/7299

Read through a couple and watch a couple videos, that should help out.

 

[cvalue13]

I’ve had questions (esp at charge stations) and thumbs-up (on the road), but nothing rude or awkward - especially nothing about pricing.

Perhaps there are some regional or other differences at play here, as these “awkward” interactions do not seem universal.

Separately, I’d just like to inject: for any high-demand low-volume specialty vehicle of the past 3-5 years, from any legitimate manufacturer, I think a reality check is in order regarding whether any such vehicle has been distributed remotely on a first-reservation/first-served basis.

If Ford’s made any central mistake, it’s over-estimating it’s customers understanding of what a “reservation” means. Too many people, apparently, incorrectly believed it to be something like pulling a number at a deli counter. Despite the fact the entire sign-up was riddled with “a reservation is not an order, we don’t have to give you any truck in any configuration, at any price, at any time - just like *you* aren’t even committing to us that you’ll buy it if we do.”

Nobody can get “skipped” in line, if there is no line.

 

[Blainestang]

If Ford’s made any central mistake, it’s over-estimating it’s customers understanding of what a “reservation” means. Too many people, apparently, incorrectly believed it to be something like pulling a number at a deli counter. Despite the fact the entire sign-up was riddled with “a reservation is not an order, we don’t have to give you any truck in any configuration, at any price, at any time - just like *you* aren’t even committing to us that you’ll buy it if we do.”

Nobody can get “skipped” in line, if there is no line.

No one reasonably ever believed that deliveries would happen in the exact order of reservation timestamp, but there absolutely are lines at each dealer. There are lines with numbered positions. Those positions, by default, are determined by reservation timestamp. People literally got moved to the front of that line despite later reservation timestamps. It's VERY clearly spelled out in the dealer playbook.

So, there's no one perfect line, but there absolutely are lines, and they're determined by reservation timestamp, by default. AND Ford let people skip those lines.

 

[vandy1981]

Nobody can get “skipped” in line, if there is no line.

There were lines within each dealer. Dealers had the option to reprioritize orders in December 2021 and that allowed people to skip the line within a dealership.

 

[cvalue13]

So, there's no one perfect line, but there absolutely are lines, and they're determined by reservation timestamp, by default. AND Ford let people skip those lines.

just saying, seems like semantics to me.

you can choose to say “there is a line, and ford let people skip” but it describes the exact same outcome as instead saying “the ‘line’ was only ever what Ford determined it to be”

Let’s put it instead in terms more familiar: college admissions

Submitting an application, doesn’t guarantee admission.

Submitting your application early, *might* mean your application is read sooner, but doesn’t related to decision timing.

Applicantsthat apply later than you, may get admitted before you.

Whether your application is ever accepted depends not only on how many people are accepted before you, but also how many of those people commit to attend, and if there is still room after that they might circle back to your application.

And don’t forget, there are *Legacy* applicants whose grandfather’s names are on plaques outsides buildings they donated to the university - and the world spins in that direction.

So then, that analogy laid out: is there a “line” that colleges are “skipping,” or is the “line”‘only ever what the colleges decide it to be?

Both answers are true, but one seems more … realistic.

And look, I hate to for a moment appear to speak on behalf of a car dealership, but I’ve seen these issues in other contexts (luxury watches, etc.): if you are a dealership that has customers who spend $1M/year in automobiles with you, and Ford doesn’t allow you as a dealership to reflect that customer’s importance in the delivery schedule, then Ford is f*cking it’s #1 customer (dealers) and it’s #2 customer (people buying tons of cars).

“halo” product reservations are an application to purchase, not a deli counter ticket

that’s just one persons view, which in this instance happens to square pretty well with the facts

 

[vandy1981]

just saying, seems like semantics to me.

There's zero ambiguity regarding priority within a dealership. The earliest reservation timestamp gets called first unless the dealer decider to manually reprioritize.

Allocations between dealerships depend in a bunch of factors including overall dealer volume, region and CARB requirements.
This does not affect prioritization within a dealership.

 

[cvalue13]

There's zero ambiguity regarding priority within a dealership. The earliest reservation timestamp gets called first unless the dealer decider to manually reprioritize.

All sounded convincing until your “unless”

That the dealer can reprioritize is part of the rule book, not a violation of the rules

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills

Let me describe to you the rules of a board game we’re all going to play together tonight as a family after supper - it has only 4 rules:

(1) daddy (the dealer) is the “game-master”
(2) subject to rule (3) below, other family member’s turn to play goes counter-clockwise around the table
(3) the game-master can choose to instead have turns go in order of their favorite family members
(4) you’re not guaranteed to be a favorite family member

Now it’s after dinner, the game’s begun, and game-master says “mommy goes first,” and you’re not mommy.

And from your booster seat, you yell, “BUT THE GAME RULES SAY PLAY GOES COUNTER-CLOCKWISE”

No they don’t - you’re missing a comma and an all-important “unless”

 

[greenne]

No one reasonably ever believed that deliveries would happen in the exact order of reservation timestamp, but there absolutely are lines at each dealer. There are lines with numbered positions. Those positions, by default, are determined by reservation timestamp. People literally got moved to the front of that line despite later reservation timestamps. It's VERY clearly spelled out in the dealer playbook.

So, there's no one perfect line, but there absolutely are lines, and they're determined by reservation timestamp, by default. AND Ford let people skip those lines.

Obviously you thought a reservation meant something that it did not. Its was really up to Ford to interpret how to best execute, balancing the needs of mass production and the issue of fairness.

Lets be honest, if Ford truly wanted to be 100% fair they would have zero dealer allocations and would send vehicles 1 for 1 to order holders(in the trim they wanted) to the location the customer was located. So if the first 100 customers all wanted PROs and were located in Iowa they would send to Iowa.

However then dealers would complain about how one dealer got 50 f150 Lightnings to sell(with the dealer cut of profits) and people would be like why is there no lightings around my location, etc. Lets face it, thats not good for Ford--either for possible ZEV incentives or for media/public attention.

Thats to say nothing of the supply headaches it would cause and I can imagine it would cause issues with transportation and scheduling. Things would slow way, way, down. (Rivian is finding this out the hard way).

I can see why you're upset and why it doesn't seem fair, but I don't think fairness was ever going to occur and with demand far outpacing supply this is a problem not easily solved.

It goes way beyond Ford giving dealers priority.

 

[vandy1981]

Let me describe to you the rules of a board game we’re all going to play together tonight as a family after supper.

Pedanticism does not make your argument more convincing.

All of these facts are true:
1. The list was prioritized in order or reservation time stamp.
2. Dealers had a defined period during which to reprioritize a limited number of orders in December 2021.
3. If dealers did not take advantage of the orders, customers received order invites completely based on timestamp within the dealerships queue

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