I'm Curious, How Many People Are Considering Not Taking Delivery?

[Ostrichsak]

It seems like the frequency of negative posts is trending upwards lately so I wanted to start a new thread where we can all discuss our thoughts on the topic. Maybe get a better consensus in a central location rather than random scattered comments here and there on other threads.

It seems like Ford has really botched this EV thing which I was afraid may happen. The firmware is a mess (especially considering they've had the Mach-E to use for firmware research & development) and is nowhere near ready for prime time even with the super basic functionality they're launching with. The absolute least they could do is have those limited features work properly. They went with some design choices that only make sense if "this is the way we've always done it" is the reason which is the absolute worst reason to do something. They keep removing features and offering pennies on the dollar to what it would cost to add it back later... if possible. Not to mention what an absolutely clown show the entire reservation/order process has been that punished an early adopter like me (I had mine secured minutes after they opened reservations) to the tune of nearly $20k between the truck and tax incentives.

Now it seems like maybe Ford is just removing features w/o even notifying people let alone crediting them anything for doing. Some have reported their side mirrors not having heat w/o any advance notification let alone credit. On top of that, the Ford website is a joke and it seems as though their app is just as bad with endless unhappy people even (again) given the limited nature of the features it has.

In addition, I contacted my dealer a few weeks ago because I wanted to remove the mobile connector given the fact that 1) I don't need it and 2) I've been reading a lot of negativity about it's reliability. I also wanted to add the factory bed liner since it was no longer delaying production. They were roughly the same price so I figured great, I'll get a truck with more of what I want and less of what I don't for about the same price. Dealer makes the adjustment and sends new paperwork that I sign and return. The Ford.com website shows the changes on my configuration page so I'm good, right? Wrong. I get my VIN and window sticker the other day and I guess the factory didn't get the memo because the the mobile power cord is listed but no bed liner.

...here's what the website currently shows:

Given how bad the website has been I trust the sticker more. This is the way it's going to be built regardless of what the website says... sadly.

I had hoped that a company that was as established and had as deep of pockets seemingly as Ford would take what the segment had already done and improve upon it to make a better product. Instead, it seems more like they're trying to copy what others have done for years now but in a worse fashion and added zero innovation to the list. Is Ford really that far behind the times? The more I consider this the less I want to reward bad behavior out of principal.

Add all of the outside factors such as the used car market and the economic uncertainty and... I just don't know that I'm ready to take delivery in a month or so. My build date is coming up a week from Monday which puts my at taking delivery likely end of January or February. All I can think of is how much of a stressful, confusing and unenjoyable process this has been. Easily the worst car buying experience I've had out of many dozens in my lifetime.

When you get down to it, I was excited to try out the latest EV offering from Ford. For years people had called me a Tesla fanboi because that's what I own and I'm quick to point out how good the cars are. I would often respond that it was just the best option out there and that's why I was a fan and if anyone else made something even as close as what Tesla offered I'd buy it. That's why I was excited to secure my reservation on a Lightning. My thought was that if an established company like Ford entered the same market as a perky little upstart they'd create something that would make us all forget the other startup ever existed. Instead, all it's done is show me just how good these Teslas really are by comparison. I know they're not perfect and I'm the first one to point out the cons but, to put it flatly, this offering from Ford and how they've handled it sucks.

It was one thing when I knew I could take delivery and even if I hated it (which I really didn't anticipate being the case) I knew I'd break even and possibly even make a few bucks for my efforts. Instead, the used car market (among other things) has tanked. I'm pretty confident that if I took delivery today and decided I hated it within a few months I'd probably lose money on it. Coming from that perspective I'm sure I'm more critical now but it just genuinely feels like each update that has come along since I reserved my truck has been negative. There hasn't been any positive at all and at some point enough is enough. I just feel like the universe is telling me time and again to not buy this truck.

The outside factors are a little bit heavier now than they were when I initially reserved the truck too and I'd would much rather have the $80k in the bank just in case then in another depreciating asset sitting in my garage that gets underutilized.

I know that's a word wall so if you're still reading... you da real hero.

I guess I just wanted to vent a little but also have an open and honest conversation because it genuinely feels like more and more of the posts I'm seeing are of similar mindset. I guess the thing I hate the worst is that this Lightning will be MANY people's first experience with an EV and I think that lots of them will come away with a negative feeling overall for EVs even though it's just the particular EV the drove. It feels like history repeating again where the legacy manufacturers can say "We tried to give you that but nobody wanted it" and the numbers support it. Conspiracy theory aside, I just wish Ford would invest the resources in this venture to make an honest go if it rather than releasing something to market that probably wouldn't even be an alpha test let alone a beta. I'm just not thinking I want to pay $80k to be a beta tester for Ford's undercooked idea.

Thoughts?

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[boggle]

If I didn't have a MY22 price match on my MY23 PRO I would walk without hesitation. Too much on the horizon to drop a premium on a truck they keep pulling features out of. That paired with the loss of rebates and incentives, the value proposition just isn't there anymore. And that's completely ignoring the reservation/ordering system disaster Ford has created for themselves.

 

[Halbach]

If I didn't have a MY22 price match on my MY23 PRO I would walk without hesitation. Too much on the horizon to drop a premium on a truck they keep pulling features out of. That paired with the loss of rebates and incentives, the value proposition just isn't there anymore. And that's completely ignoring the reservation/ordering system disaster Ford has created for themselves.

Exactly. A 40k SR Pro with a likely smaller range than the 2nd generation was okay in my book with the tax credit. A 53k SR Pro with no tax credit and less range than 2nd gen was a non starter, I can wait for that (although it would suck). This is my one chance for an EV for probably another 8-10 years or so. I hope it works out.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Well I love mine, but I had a 2010 with gas smells and little tech. It has instant torque, quiet, great roomy interior. I don't agree the firmware is a mess - it has some things I would like different but at the end of the day it is a great truck for me. Don't dwell on all the negative comments here. Go back and look at the YouTube videos of the car review guys who were blown away by the truck. I'll never go back to ICE and I'm from Texas!

 

[metroshot]

I thought once a VIN is issued, you can't change your build ?
I asked my dealer to change the color only and since I have a VIN and production starts next week, it was a no.
Perhaps I'm wrong ?

 

[bewbie]

I have had an awful experience as well and will definitely not be recommending Ford to anyone.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Well I love mine, but I had a 2010 with gas smells and little tech. It has instant torque, quiet, great roomy interior. I don't agree the firmware is a mess - it has some things I would like different but at the end of the day it is a great truck for me. Don't dwell on all the negative comments here. Go back and look at the YouTube videos of the car review guys who were blown away by the truck. I'll never go back to ICE and I'm from Texas!

Your post assumes that the only non-ICE option is a Ford F150 Lightning.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I thought once a VIN is issued, you can't change your build ?
I asked my dealer to change the color only and since I have a VIN and production starts next week, it was a no.
Perhaps I'm wrong ?

Correct. My request was weeks before I was assigned a VIN and the Ford.com website even updated with the proper configuration long before the VIN was assigned.

 

[slojim]

I‘ve had my Lariat for about 6 weeks. I love it 95% of the time.
I can live with the other 5% of imperfection.
I’ve had many cars and trucks in my 55years of driving.
None of them were perfect, although my Acura NSX is close.
If you can drive one, it might make it easier to decide.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I‘ve had my Lariat for about 6 weeks. I love it 95% of the time.
I can live with the other 5% of imperfection.
I’ve had many cars and trucks in my 55years of driving.
None of them were perfect, although my Acura NSX is close.
If you can drive one, it might make it easier to decide.

I drove the dealer's platinum several months ago. I thought it was alright but nothing amazing. I'm also not coming from an ICE currently or I would have likely had a more favorable opinion. I think if you are, it's a different story because EVs are on a different level. If you're comparing to other EVs though it's missing a LOT in terms of features that have become more common these days that make ownership much more enjoyable. I'm not beholden to any brand though and I'm all about what's best for my needs and it seems that, with each passing day, this Lightning meets those needs less and less as things keep getting worse.

 

[Firestop]

As an owner for the past 4 month, I understand your concerns. I read about the negative experiences others are having and keep my fingers crossed I dodge those bullets….doubt over this $80k purchase has occasionally crept into my mind.

That said, my bottom line overall take is the grass is always greener……

• Tesla has yet to produce their 1st gen truck, and I expect they to will have their issues just like they have had with their other models.
• Chevy has yet to produce their 1st gen truck (sans the Hummer), and I expect they’ll too have their own issues.

Will either Tesla or Chevy do better than Ford in execution of their respective 1st Gen EV trucks? May be, hopefully….
but, I expect if/when one reads the topics on the future forums covering their vehicles, the reader will have a Yogi Berra moment (DeJa Vu all over again) after having visited/read the various threads here.

The Lightning is truly an early adopter product and those purchasing it should be (have been) prepared for early adopter issues. Being 1st with a product that breaks the mold requires a little bit of a constitution and faith….

• Am I disappointed that their are issues? Yes!
• Do I expect @Ford Motor Company would have done some things differently/better? Yes!
• Do I understand your concerns and thoughts about potentially walking away from your purchase? Yes?
• Overall am I happy with the purchase of my truck? Yes!

He who hesitates is lost. (Corollary: He who hesitates is last)

 

[lightspeed]

Hmmmm....

I think it's fair to say that it's a Gen1 product and you will suffer some of the early adopter pains.

But having said that:

- The software is mostly good. Yes it's pokey and yes there are some quirks and outright bugs, but most of it works correctly.
- The DRIVING part of the ownership experience is exceptional compared to a normal ICE truck. The handling, acceleration, full-time all-wheel drive, independent rear suspension, nearly 50/50 weight balance, all add up to making it darn good for a giant truck.
- Tesla has been deleting features too and they don't have AppleCarPlay or AndroidAuto which are more useful to me than Netflix. Fit-n-Finish of the Lightning is better than Tesla IMO. Plus you get a lot of stuff that you just can't get from a Tesla (ProPower, ZoneLighting, lights up when you get close, frunk/bed, it's a truck, opening pano-roof, car-to-house power option, giant back seat, etc.)
- Not sure what's wrong with the Ford website, seems ok to me, the FordPass App isn't great, but it works and I just don't use it much
- I think it was unrealistic to expect to break even or even profit from owning any mass produced car. The last few years have been the exception. It's hard to predict what will happen, but I think Lightning prices will do ok because EVs don't wear out like ICEs and all of the future competitors will cost more and be hard to get for quite some time.
- The Ford/dealership crap annoying, but it's not unique to the Lightning.

Overall, I like it and I was definitely on the fence before getting it. When I looked at all of the currently available EVs though, the Lightning is unique and priced ok. For me, a lot of the other EVs have some sort of fatal flaw plus if you want a truck you only have one other option.

- Rivian, great, but too small, too hard to get, uncertain future, no dealer/repair network, etc.
- BMW i4/iX/i7, the iX is great but even more expensive, i4 is better than a Model3 except the back seat is too small, i7 is expensive and too 'posh'
- Audi, e-tron terrible range, e-tron GT RS (Taycan) amazing but terrible range and super expensive
- Hyundai/Kia, don't care, too boring
- Mercedes: very expensive bubble cars, interesting interiors
- Tesla, good but boring, sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone
- polestar, no interest
- GM LOL

The Lightning might even be a bargain at only $10/lb, less than the cost of steak.

 

[metroshot]

I drove the dealer's platinum several months ago. I thought it was alright but nothing amazing. I'm also not coming from an ICE currently or I would have likely had a more favorable opinion. I think if you are, it's a different story because EVs are on a different level. If you're comparing to other EVs though it's missing a LOT in terms of features that have become more common these days that make ownership much more enjoyable. I'm not beholden to any brand though and I'm all about what's best for my needs and it seems that, with each passing day, this Lightning meets those needs less and less as things keep getting worse.

Not to sound rude, but you are not a Tesla fan boi are you ?

On other social media forums that I moderate, I run across a lot of Tesla fans who hate any other EV brand and try to find reasons disparage and make people feel uncomfortable.

I personally come from a Honda PHEV and learned alot about EV driving and maximizing range.

This has helped me move into a full BEV - my first EV F150.

Having driven the Lightning for 6 months and tons of my co workers who all have Teslas say that the Ford displays a much higher tech (being 10 years newer than the Tesla design) instead of the boring single center display of their Teslas.

Loving it so much, my wife's MME is being built now and should be here in late January. Her MME was a '22 forced into a '23 with a $6K PCO which makes it slightly palatable (lost color & incentives).

Never having owned a Tesla - I don't have a love/hate relationship with Tesla.

I just love good BEV designed vehicles.

 

[rdr854]

It seems like the frequency of negative posts is trending upwards lately so I wanted to start a new thread where we can all discuss our thoughts on the topic. Maybe get a better consensus in a central location rather than random scattered comments here and there on other threads.

It seems like Ford has really botched this EV thing which I was afraid may happen. The firmware is a mess (especially considering they've had the Mach-E to use for firmware research & development) and is nowhere near ready for prime time even with the super basic functionality they're launching with. The absolute least they could do is have those limited features work properly. They went with some design choices that only make sense if "this is the way we've always done it" is the reason which is the absolute worst reason to do something. They keep removing features and offering pennies on the dollar to what it would cost to add it back later... if possible. Not to mention what an absolutely clown show the entire reservation/order process has been that punished an early adopter like me (I had mine secured minutes after they opened reservations) to the tune of nearly $20k between the truck and tax incentives.

Now it seems like maybe Ford is just removing features w/o even notifying people let alone crediting them anything for doing. Some have reported their side mirrors not having heat w/o any advance notification let alone credit. On top of that, the Ford website is a joke and it seems as though their app is just as bad with endless unhappy people even (again) given the limited nature of the features it has.

In addition, I contacted my dealer a few weeks ago because I wanted to remove the mobile connector given the fact that 1) I don't need it and 2) I've been reading a lot of negativity about it's reliability. I also wanted to add the factory bed liner since it was no longer delaying production. They were roughly the same price so I figured great, I'll get a truck with more of what I want and less of what I don't for about the same price. Dealer makes the adjustment and sends new paperwork that I sign and return. The Ford.com website shows the changes on my configuration page so I'm good, right? Wrong. I get my VIN and window sticker the other day and I guess the factory didn't get the memo because the the mobile power cord is listed but no bed liner.

...here's what the website currently shows:

Given how bad the website has been I trust the sticker more. This is the way it's going to be built regardless of what the website says... sadly.

I had hoped that a company that was as established and had as deep of pockets seemingly as Ford would take what the segment had already done and improve upon it to make a better product. Instead, it seems more like they're trying to copy what others have done for years now but in a worse fashion and added zero innovation to the list. Is Ford really that far behind the times? The more I consider this the less I want to reward bad behavior out of principal.

Add all of the outside factors such as the used car market and the economic uncertainty and... I just don't know that I'm ready to take delivery in a month or so. My build date is coming up a week from Monday which puts my at taking delivery likely end of January or February. All I can think of is how much of a stressful, confusing and unenjoyable process this has been. Easily the worst car buying experience I've had out of many dozens in my lifetime.

When you get down to it, I was excited to try out the latest EV offering from Ford. For years people had called me a Tesla fanboi because that's what I own and I'm quick to point out how good the cars are. I would often respond that it was just the best option out there and that's why I was a fan and if anyone else made something even as close as what Tesla offered I'd buy it. That's why I was excited to secure my reservation on a Lightning. My thought was that if an established company like Ford entered the same market as a perky little upstart they'd create something that would make us all forget the other startup ever existed. Instead, all it's done is show me just how good these Teslas really are by comparison. I know they're not perfect and I'm the first one to point out the cons but, to put it flatly, this offering from Ford and how they've handled it sucks.

It was one thing when I knew I could take delivery and even if I hated it (which I really didn't anticipate being the case) I knew I'd break even and possibly even make a few bucks for my efforts. Instead, the used car market (among other things) has tanked. I'm pretty confident that if I took delivery today and decided I hated it within a few months I'd probably lose money on it. Coming from that perspective I'm sure I'm more critical now but it just genuinely feels like each update that has come along since I reserved my truck has been negative. There hasn't been any positive at all and at some point enough is enough. I just feel like the universe is telling me time and again to not buy this truck.

The outside factors are a little bit heavier now than they were when I initially reserved the truck too and I'd would much rather have the $80k in the bank just in case then in another depreciating asset sitting in my garage that gets underutilized.

I know that's a word wall so if you're still reading... you da real hero.

I guess I just wanted to vent a little but also have an open and honest conversation because it genuinely feels like more and more of the posts I'm seeing are of similar mindset. I guess the thing I hate the worst is that this Lightning will be MANY people's first experience with an EV and I think that lots of them will come away with a negative feeling overall for EVs even though it's just the particular EV the drove. It feels like history repeating again where the legacy manufacturers can say "We tried to give you that but nobody wanted it" and the numbers support it. Conspiracy theory aside, I just wish Ford would invest the resources in this venture to make an honest go if it rather than releasing something to market that probably wouldn't even be an alpha test let alone a beta. I'm just not thinking I want to pay $80k to be a beta tester for Ford's undercooked idea.

Thoughts?

My truck came with the mobile connector and without the bed liner from Ford. I have no regrets. I got the spray in bed liner from LineX - which gives me a lifetime warrante rather that the 3/36 that you would get through Ford. Additionally, the mobile connector allowed me to charge at home while awaiting my Ford Charge Station Pro and when traveling.

Assuming your configuration matches the window sticker, it is not the end of the world - especially since you can still get a spray in bed liner and with a better warranty to boot.

Enjoy the truck. I‘ve had mine since the end of July with no regrets.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Not to sound rude, but you are not a Tesla fan boi are you ?

On other social media forums that I moderate, I run across a lot of Tesla fans who hate any other EV brand and try to find reasons disparage and make people feel uncomfortable.

I personally come from a Honda PHEV and learned alot about EV driving and maximizing range.

This has helped me move into a full BEV - my first EV F150.

Having driven the Lightning for 6 months and tons of my co workers who all have Teslas say that the Ford displays a much higher tech (being 10 years newer than the Tesla design) instead of the boring single center display of their Teslas.

Loving it so much, my wife's MME is being built now and should be here in late January. Her MME was a '22 forced into a '23 with a $6K PCO which makes it slightly palatable (lost color & incentives).

Never having owned a Tesla - I don't have a love/hate relationship with Tesla.

I just love good BEV designed vehicles.

Am I a Tesla fanboi? Did you even read my post or just see the title and comment?

Thanks for making my point about how the average consumer will own a Lightning and, if it's a bad experience, will assume all EVs are like that. The fact that you throw all Teslas into your comparison is what I'm talking about because they're not the same. Not even close.

The Model 3/Y is the one that was literally designed from the ground up to be as cheap as possible. The Model S/X is the flagship that was 4-5x more and is their showcase of all of their crazy tech. The vehicles are an incredibly different experience, especially if you own one long term. But the Model 3/Y is the one everyone has been in because they're mass produced to be cheap. So they have the one lame screen and everything about them is cheap. I can't stand the single screen and many of the other design choices in the 3/Y.

So saying that "the Tesla isn't even close to the Lightning" is a lot like comparing the cheapest car Mercedes makes to the most expensive vehicle Ford makes and then arriving at the opinion that "Ford is better than Mercedes" when you compared apples to Aardvarks.

Again, many of the posts I see from happy owners are those who have never owned an EV. I get it because it's a completely different game. But if you're already used to the EV segment for years you aren't as amazed by the things that are just better about EVs because they most all do those basics better than ICE.

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