I'm Curious, How Many People Are Considering Not Taking Delivery?

[Replika]

I feel ya. Rivian might be a better fit.

The lighting is super comfortable, great for cruising, spacious, and has the 9.6k inverter.

Teslas are great in many ways but I find them to be noisy and uncomfortable. For those reasons I’m out of the Tesla market.

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[khatch]

I read your entire post. The things that have me debating taking ownership were the price increase and the possibility of missing out on the tax credit. But all the other things haven‘t bothered me so much that I would pass on the Lightning.

I have a pretty old F150 so whether I went with an ICE version or the Lightning, the tech will be so much more than I have. My truck didn’t have a screen, backup camera, or even a USB port.

I did go through the Bronco reservation process and there were delays and disappointments along the way so maybe I was mentally prepared.

But overall, the positives outweigh the negatives because I want a new truck, really dislike the Cybertruck, can’t afford a Hummer, didn’t get in line for the Rivian, and I like the F150 I have. I’ve never driven or even been in an EV but owners are very happy with them and I assume I will be too.

Final thing, I got pretty emotional with the stress and problems I had when I bought my house. I wanted to walk away to make a point, but I didn’t. I’ve been in the house for more than 20 years and still love it. The salesman and others issues during the build were the stressors but were very temporary, the house was more permanent. These issues with the rollout and order are temporary too. I think that’s important to keep in mind. It’s the truck that matters. If it is what you want, the process is worth it.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Correct. My request was weeks before I was assigned a VIN and the Ford.com website even updated with the proper configuration long before the VIN was assigned.

Incorrect, well partially anyway.
You have an (unofficial) VIN pretty much as soon as your order is accepted. You can locate it with some effort, but it's there. The hard cutoff have been at the time of scheduling, once you're scheduled for production you're SOL on changes.

 

[mr.Magoo]

And to stay on topic...
I would probably have passed had I not gotten a MY22. I don't need a truck per se, it just happened to be the best compromise of all my wants. There's a s-it ton of new releases coming in the next year or two, so the combination of increased price, no/reduced tax credit, arbitrary option removal and, most importantly, other options / alternatives (in vehicles that is) all that would make me think a lot lot harder about my choices and while the F150 is still a strong candidate it is no longer the no-brainer decision the MY22 was.

 

[lightspeed]

And to stay on topic...
I would probably have passed had I not gotten a MY22. I don't need a truck per se, it just happened to be the best compromise of all my wants. There's a s-it ton of new releases coming in the next year or two, so the combination of increased price, no/reduced tax credit, arbitrary option removal and, most importantly, other options / alternatives (in vehicles that is) all that would make me think a lot lot harder about my choices and while the F150 is still a strong candidate it is no longer the no-brainer decision the MY22 was.

Not sure what s-ton of trucks are coming in the next two years.

- Cybertruck will start production end of next year 2023 (hopefully), and they have 1.5 million reservations, so depending on where you are in line it could take years to get one. They will probably produce less than 100k units in 2024. I have a reservation spot around 250K, so I would expect to get one around end of 2025, to mid 2026.

- GM Silverado/Sierra starts FALL 2023. But GM so far has a terrible track record of actually making EVs. Will they make 1000 per month or 10000 per month? Who knows. And how much will they cost?

- RAM EV is just a paper fantasy so far. They say production sometime in 2024. What will their production ramp be like?

- Fisker/Foxconn/Toyota/Hyundai/VW/Audi.... all paper dreams with far off release dates.

Genuinely curious what you think will be available in the next year or two because to me it looks like the average person won't be able to walk in a dealer and buy a mid-spec EV truck until 2026 or later. Until then, sales will ramp slowly with most of the early allocations being $80K+ trucks.

Ford is in the lead so far and even they have only produced like 12K Lightnings in 6 months so far.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Not sure what s-ton of trucks are coming in the next two years.

Not many, that's why I stated that I don't need a truck per se... my post was a reflection of my needs and my reasoning. I just meant there's a lot of more utilitarian, larger EVs coming, the Volvo EX90 for example.

If you specifically want/need a fullsize truck the choices are a lot more limited.

 

[Rob G]

I have had an awful experience as well and will definitely not be recommending Ford to anyone.

Am I a Tesla fanboi? Did you even read my post or just see the title and comment?

Thanks for making my point about how the average consumer will own a Lightning and, if it's a bad experience, will assume all EVs are like that. The fact that you throw all Teslas into your comparison is what I'm talking about because they're not the same. Not even close.

The Model 3/Y is the one that was literally designed from the ground up to be as cheap as possible. The Model S/X is the flagship that was 4-5x more and is their showcase of all of their crazy tech. The vehicles are an incredibly different experience, especially if you own one long term. But the Model 3/Y is the one everyone has been in because they're mass produced to be cheap. So they have the one lame screen and everything about them is cheap. I can't stand the single screen and many of the other design choices in the 3/Y.

So saying that "the Tesla isn't even close to the Lightning" is a lot like comparing the cheapest car Mercedes makes to the most expensive vehicle Ford makes and then arriving at the opinion that "Ford is better than Mercedes" when you compared apples to Aardvarks.

Again, many of the posts I see from happy owners are those who have never owned an EV. I get it because it's a completely different game. But if you're already used to the EV segment for years you aren't as amazed by the things that are just better about EVs because they most all do those basics better than ICE.

My 2022 loaded lariat ER was 80,500 before tax credit a 2022 model Y perf is about 70 grand without selecting a color. They aren't far apart in price, not counting tax credit. I have a 2020 MYP and had 2020 MSLR before getting a taycan. I love Tesla's and think the charging network is important differentiator.

As far as feature deletes tesla has seen their fair share of that too, including removing radar and arguing cameras are better. That being said my lightning as awesome. There are things I think could be better, including the entire Ford pass app, but it does everything I want a pickup truck to do.


If I had the level of reservation that you do, then I'd definitely pass. At the end of the day its just a car and you shouldn't feel anxious or concerned.

I bought one because I like the utility of p/u trucks and just enjoy trucks overall. For some people its sports cars for me my thrill is jeeps/and trucks, can't help it.

Trepidation on large purchases is understandable and the car market is slowing, thus flipping may not work out. You can always order at a later time if you feel more comfortable or wait for CT or Silverado if the suit you better.

 

[runawaytruck]

I'm definitely leaning towards not going ahead with the Lightning purchase, mainly due to the cost/value calculation. The price has gone up significantly since I reserved it, and I've also got a reservation for a Rivian which is locked in at a lower price than they are currently charging. So the Rivian is looking like a much better value, and I'd rather have an SUV than a pickup truck for my use case. Looks like flipping for a profit is no longer feasible so I'll likely pass on the lightning when the time comes, but will hold on to the reservation for now just in case.

 

[lightspeed]

Yup, the Lightning battery is modular so if one of the sub-packs goes out it can be replaced.

In Tesla's case, you can only replace the entire battery as it's one big glued together battery. The good news is that they seem to be lasting hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues on the average.

 

[F150ROD]

My thoughts? I love it way more than my 18 Model 3 LR despite some minor flaws that don’t affect the drive.

As far as features being removed …… didn’t Tesla just remove their sensors without informing customers or given them $5 back?

it’s a sign of the times with “ shortages”

 

[Replika]

I have to agree with all of the replies. Having owned five EVs now from Tesla and traditional OEMs, they all have their pros and cons. I don't see the Lightning sticking out as particularly bad or unappealing in any way aside for the dangerous B&O Unleashed 110 dB audio glitch which is not a Lightning-specific issue. Wouldn't drive in a vehicle with that system, period.

On the whole the Lightning has unique features is a better value proposition than most EVs. The feature deletes and pitiful compensation are pretty universal right now. Heated seats, steering wheels, premium sound, and lumbar support seem to be the most affected. Hearing about deletes of the mirror and glass heating is more concerning in my view since those have an impact on safety and are simply expected at the price point.

Also remember, Tesla has deleted radar, lumbar support, physical drive select/horn/turn signal buttons, and a steering wheel in their S/X (now rumored to be coming to the 3/Y). Doesn't that seem worse?

The Rivian looks to be a great truck, but downsides versus the Lightning are build quality, ride quality, noise insulation, interior/exterior space, 1.4 kW total from the power outlets (9.6 for the Lightning), smaller frunk with higher load floor. And then availability, you can't get it unless you plan on overpaying $15-20k. Might be worth it, but not something I would consider.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still on the fence due to availability and am glad people are mentioning the deleted features and other negatives so I know what to look for.

 

[Kev12345]

I won't complete my order. I need my truck to last a decade. Ill wait for the cybertruck or gen2 lightning at this point

 

[jimfigler]

If I didn't have a MY22 price match on my MY23 PRO I would walk without hesitation. Too much on the horizon to drop a premium on a truck they keep pulling features out of. That paired with the loss of rebates and incentives, the value proposition just isn't there anymore. And that's completely ignoring the reservation/ordering system disaster Ford has created for themselves.

I agree completely with your statement about MY22 price match. So far I really love my Pro but would not pay that much. I actually don’t mind the Ford Pass app or the truck software. Seems fine to me. But these are first version EV trucks. I think Ford wanted these out first. To do this they just retrofitted an EV to the ICE truck which created some limitations or compromises. The price of the Lariat ER and Platinum are ridiculous. They are a money losing venture when the scarcity and uniqueness of the Lightning fades as new and updated trucks are introduced. The resale values of these top trims will be far from their original MSRP.

 

[Sealevel]

I believe it will come down to a basic economic decision - similar for ICE vehicles. I will consider the cost of repair versus the cost of replacement of the vehicle at the time. Replacement of the battery is indeed very costly now, but should adjust over time with expansion of options etc. Anyone who faced a major drivetrain repair/replacement on a 10 year old F-150 has made this choice before.

Also, the warranty on the battery should be read that the ability to be charged at the end of the 8 year period is 80% - not 0%. The Lightning will need to be charged more often, and that is similar to getting lower mpg on an ICE - you had to buy fuel more often.

I'm taking delivery unless my wife says ABSOLUTELY SHE WILL NOT drive it.

 

[Rob G]

I agree completely with your statement about MY22 price match. So far I really love my Pro but would not pay that much. I actually don’t mind the Ford Pass app or the truck software. Seems fine to me. But these are first version EV trucks. I think Ford wanted these out first. To do this they just retrofitted an EV to the ICE truck which created some limitations or compromises. The price of the Lariat ER and Platinum are ridiculous. They are a money losing venture when the scarcity and uniqueness of the Lightning fades as new and updated trucks are introduced. The resale values of these top trims will be far from their original MSRP.

I don't think the Lightnings are a straight retro fit of a gas F150. The frame I believe is totally unique and the rear is IRS. I'm pretty sure not even all of the body panels are the same.

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