Where is the charging station etiquette?

[Pjlightning]

Fastest way to educate people is through the wallet...

$200 fine if you occupy an EV Charger without being plugged in.

Charge based on time spent... EA already have this some places to an extent...
If you're a 50kw/h guy occupying a 350kh/h charger your rate should also be 3-4 times as high as if you were on a 100kw/h charger (where options are available).
Charge per rate supplied:
100+ kw/h is $0.10, 50kw is $0.30 10kw/h is $0.60
Charge per reached state of charge:
Up to 80% at one rate, 80-90 another and 90-100 is $1 per kw/h

This way you're giving people a financial incentive to move, many times today EV spots are prime parking spots and people plug in wether or not they need it simply because they can. Make it hurt the wallet if they "over stay".

Obviously there's more metrics and massaging required, I'm just outlining the general concept, not saying this is the exact answer...

Yep….
Just had the “prime spot “ conversation this morning with a hybrid knowingly parking in a spot that he knew immediately had no available chargers compatible for his jeep,
but he was staying anyways,
because he “qualified “ for the spot.
and off he went to ski for the day……

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...e-bev-hybrid-compete-for-limited-slots.14317/

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[Avocadodude]

Well in So Cal EA stations for me have about a 30% success rate of working at all. Not to mention there’s almost always a “line”. Not sure how this gets fixed, but feel like the chargers are going to need a cue and a limit if there’s a cue. It’s not like the EA stations don’t show everyone what percentage you’re at. Excuse me, you’re at 92%, it’s probably not good for your battery, which is usually met with F’off.

 

[Joneii]

Well in So Cal EA stations for me have about a 30% success rate of working at all. Not to mention there’s almost always a “line”. Not sure how this gets fixed, but feel like the chargers are going to need a cue and a limit if there’s a cue. It’s not like the EA stations don’t show everyone what percentage you’re at. Excuse me, you’re at 92%, it’s probably not good for your battery, which is usually met with F’off.

I don’t lead with F’off, but sometimes it’s nice to imagine being enough of a jerk to start there. Some people assume they know best and want to educate you without having all the facts. Towing an RV often means you need to charge beyond 90% to get to the next station (and you’re praying that it actually works). It also means that you don’t fit in many of the charging areas. Often you need to drop the trailer somewhere and then drive over and charge. This was the situation when an offended Hyundai driver decided to “educate” me about charging my Lightning above 90% on a 350 kW unit that the truck can’t use. He of course didn’t know the RV parked on the other side of the parking lot was mine or that the 350 kW unit was the only one available when I hooked up and that the Lightning actually pulls 170 kW for a few minutes at first connection. I smiled and politely explained myself, but my inner A-hole was saying something else!

 

[AZT9]

I don’t lead with F’off, but sometimes it’s nice to imagine being enough of a jerk to start there. Some people assume they know best and want to educate you without having all the facts. Towing an RV often means you need to charge beyond 90% to get to the next station (and you’re praying that it actually works). It also means that you don’t fit in many of the charging areas. Often you need to drop the trailer somewhere and then drive over and charge. This was the situation when an offended Hyundai driver decided to “educate” me about charging my Lightning above 90% on a 350 kW unit that the truck can’t use. He of course didn’t know the RV parked on the other side of the parking lot was mine or that the 350 kW unit was the only one available when I hooked up and that the Lightning actually pulls 170 kW for a few minutes at first connection. I smiled and politely explained myself, but my inner A-hole was saying something else!

That’s what gets me. I understand that we all don’t know ones reason for needing to charge well past 80% and for some it’s necessary. For the vast majority, it’s like others have said,
1, F U I’m gonna do what I want
2, it’s free so I’m gonna sit here reading my book and screw the line of other vehicles waiting to charge
3, they just don’t know that it isn’t necessary and literally doubles the charging time to gain 20%
I’m not going to charge the world
On my own but I feel that every little bit helps. If other stalls are available I will sit on a 150kw and leave the 350 for a car that can use it. I also rarely charge to 100% because it’s almost never necessary to get to another charger or my destination.

 

[vandy1981]

This was the situation when an offended Hyundai driver decided to “educate” me about charging my Lightning above 90% on a 350 kW unit that the truck can’t use.

I feel like the Ioniq5 and EV6 drivers have the biggest opinions about who should be using the 350kw chargers. I've only experienced this in online forums and not in person so far.

An Ioniq5 saves five minutes max on a 350kw over a 150 kW charger. The lightning also saves around five minutes on a 500 amp 350kw over a 150 kW charger. Whose five minutes are more important?

Not to mention that the EV6/Ioniq5 have cold throttling issues and that the Lightning can actually charge faster than the EV6/Ioniq5 in colder conditions.

 

[Joneii]

I feel like the Ioniq5 and EV6 drivers have the biggest opinions about who should be using the 350kw chargers. I've only experienced this in online forums and not in person so far.

An Ioniq5 saves five minutes max on a 350kw over a 150 kW charger. The lightning also saves around five minutes on a 500 amp 350kw over a 150 kW charger. Whose five minutes are more important?

Not to mention that the EV6/Ioniq5 have cold throttling issues and that the Lightning can actually charge faster than the EV6/Ioniq5 in colder conditions.

I didn’t know that they were cold throttled. I actually pulled in to a 150 kW EA station about 5 minutes after a Kia started charging on the station next to me ( his was a 350 kW unit). I didn’t need a lot of juice, but I was towing and happy to take the 150kW unit because it meant I could leave the trailer attached. I pulled 41 kW in 17 minutes (an average of 144 kWh, with a peak of 158 kWh!). I was pretty proud and while unplugging I looked over at his screen to see he had only gotten about 35 kW so far. I just chalked it up to a jacked up EA station because; well, you all know. Maybe EA wasn’t to blame because it was chilly (30 ish Fahrenheit)?

 

[vandy1981]

I didn’t know that they were cold throttled. I actually pulled in to a 150 kW EA station about 5 minutes after a Kia started charging on the station next to me ( his was a 350 kW unit). I didn’t need a lot of juice, but I was towing and happy to take the 150kW unit because it meant I could leave the trailer attached. I pulled 41 kW in 17 minutes (an average of 144 kWh, with a peak of 158 kWh!). I was pretty proud and while unplugging I looked over at his screen to see he had only gotten about 35 kW so far. I just chalked it up to a jacked up EA station because; well, you all know. Maybe EA wasn’t to blame because it was chilly (30 ish Fahrenheit)?

Yeah, there's a lot of variability in charging speed curves for the EV6 and Ioniq5 and many other EVs (including the Rivians). The Lightning has been remarkably consistent, assuming the charger can provide a full 500 amps.

 

[Joneii]

Yeah, there's a lot of variability in charging speed curves for the EV6 and Ioniq5 and many other EVs (including the Rivians). The Lightning has been remarkably consistent, assuming the charger can provide a full 500 amps.

Agreed. The “full pull” for the first 5-10 minutes of charge is awesome. Because of this (and the inherent unreliability of the current charging infrastructure) I stop often in road trips and charge about 15-20 minutes, not for the next charging station, but to get to the one beyond. This gives me the option to skip a station if it is broken or full and keeps my charging times just long enough for everyone to go to the bathroom and stretch their legs. This has been so effective that we actually have to plan to bypass chargers when we want to be able to have a long enough charge for a sit down meal!

 

[GDN]

I really thought Ford would have enough feedback and information on our batteries to adjust the charging curve by now. Maybe they are planning it in an upcoming release. The drop at 80% is really harsh. They could make that more of a taper.

 

[vandy1981]

I really thought Ford would have enough feedback and information on our batteries to adjust the charging curve by now. Maybe they are planning it in an upcoming release. The drop at 80% is really harsh. They could make that more of a taper.

I feel like they have a big enough battery and more than enough thermal overhead to improve the charging curve (especially with ER and Max Tow). Maybe they'll time the release with the debut of the Ram BEVolution or CyberTruck rollouts.

Either way, peaks are still going to be limited by low pack voltage and the 500 amp CCS ceiling. The marketers and general public seem to focus on peak kW even though the area under the curve is way more important.

330V*500A=165 kW (low state of charge)
390V*500A=195 kW (high state of charge)

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