CSP-23B57 for High Voltage Battery Notice

[DesertEV]

Re: battery problems

Just after we bought our new 2021 Chevrolet Bolt EV we became aware there were problems with Bolt batteries. A number of Bolts had caught fire. There wasn't a huge number of fires, but owners became concerned, especially as Chevrolet initially tried to deny the problem.

The problem was said to develop when two rare manufacturing faults were present in a single module. Batteries with this fairly rare combo of faults would, sooner or later, ignite and destroy the car.

All Bolt owners were issued a warning not to park their vehicles near anything they didn't want burned to the ground, like their house. Chevrolet felt forced to offer a buy back program supposedly for all Bolts produced to that point. Since the fires were very uncommon, Chevrolet also offered any Bolt owners who could live with the idea their car could self destruct at any moment that Chevrolet would install a brand new battery in their Bolt once they ironed out the manufacturing process to eliminate this hazard, and once they managed to make and install enough batteries so that they would get around to a particular owner.

The battery failures were more common in Bolts older than our 2021. I love this little EV, and I decided that I'd keep our Bolt rather than have Chevrolet buy it back, because of the promise of a brand new battery at some point down the road. I believe we were warned not to exceed a 90% charge, or to discharge below 10%. I had already decided not to routinely charge more than 80% or to discharge lower than 20%.

Years go by. Chevrolet reneged on their promise to install a new battery in our car. They recalled the car and installed software that limited the charging and discharging that could be done with the battery, I believe to the 90%/10% figures. This software was said to be capable of determining, after a certain number of miles like more than 10,000, if the battery contained the deadly defects.

So we never got the advertised range. Our car has not burned up, but the software has not pronounced that the battery will not do this.

Chevrolet offered everyone in our position $1400 only if we would sign a document that contained a release - we could never be compensated more than that $1400 for this. I didn't accept the $1400. What if our house was destroyed by this car in the rare event the battery self destructed prior to Chevrolet software declaring the battery could not do this? There is a class action suit in the works. What if a court orders Chevrolet to compensate owners for selling them a car they were warned afterwards they should not park near anything an owner valued, or if a court ordered Chevrolet to replace all the batteries it promised to replace?

I haven't looked into it. I have no idea what the chances of the class action suit are. I have little faith in the courts, car manufacturers, or car dealers.

I remain very happy with the car.

Why tell this story? I am seriously considering buying an F-150 Flash. However, I don't like the sound of this battery problem Ford seems to have. My plan to buy the Flash is on hold.

Mass production and sale of EVs is just getting started. We are "early adopters". This is the kind of thing that happens.

Even though I spent a few decades as a climate activist starting in 1988, I had been burning fossil fuel for transport up until I bought the Bolt. I would like to see civilization stabilize the composition of the atmosphere. Transport emissions are a significant factor that must be dealt with.

Thank you for sharing…you totally blew my mind with the activist plug at the end lol

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[Dolio]

You're not likely to have this issue in MY24 trucks, or at least I hope that's the case.....

In addition, unlike the Bolt, I have not heard of any F-150 Lightning going into thermal runaway (catching fire). But yes, in the case of Ford and GM, the Bolt, MachE, and Lightning are nearly first generation products, so some problems are not unreasonable, and we do all hope that they no longer have such issues with future generations. As a counterpoint though, Tesla never had such systemic battery problems, to the best of my knowledge...

 

[CluckFam7]

You're not likely to have this issue in MY24 trucks, or at least I hope that's the case.....

I’m curious - what makes you say this?

 

[TaxmanHog]

I’m curious - what makes you say this?

It's my understanding that SK and Ford ironed out the key issues with the cell & pack assembly that caused issues with critical pack failures i.e.. the fire at the plant last year.

 

[CluckFam7]

It's my understanding that SK and Ford ironed out the key issues with the cell & pack assembly that caused issues with critical pack failures i.e.. the fire at the plant last year.

I see. I didn’t think that there had been a clear root cause and closure of the battery module failures that people have been getting. Haven’t people been having battery module failures for vehicles manufactured well after the fire?

 

[TaxmanHog]

I see. I didn’t think that there had been a clear root cause and closure of the battery module failures that people have been getting. Haven’t people been having battery module failures for vehicles manufactured well after the fire?

Yes, but after the click bait headlines, the media doesn't follow-up on the after story, several folks have asked and speculated that the impact was greater than 4%, probably so, and therefore the affected 22/23 trucks should be likely to be the worst of the problems, MY24 shouldn't be as much of a problem.

 

[CluckFam7]

I think I’m still confused.

I thought the fire at the Dearborn production facility had a specifically identified root cause with 18 trucks recalled.

I thought the numerous people experiencing battery module failures being identified after the software updates (ie the 4% in the 23CSP57) was a totally separate issue. Is that correct? I hadn’t heard of anything official on Ford identifying or addressing the root cause of these other battery failures.

Am I missing something?

 

[GDN]

I think I’m still confused.

I thought the fire at the Dearborn production facility had a specifically identified root cause with 18 trucks recalled.

I thought the numerous people experiencing battery module failures being identified after the software updates (ie the 4% in the 23CSP57) was a totally separate issue. Is that correct? I hadn’t heard of anything official on Ford identifying or addressing the root cause of these other battery failures.

Am I missing something?

You are correct. The fire was very limited. There is no correlation to the fire and this issue with up to 4% of the trucks which has no disclosed root cause and no known fix, although the tracking seems to indicate the majority of the trucks were from '22, with some '23's sprinkled in indicating there was a problem found and corrected.

Ford has no way to know which modules or batteries have this problem because some trucks have been in 3 times for module replacements.

 

[CluckFam7]

You are correct. The fire was very limited. There is no correlation to the fire and this issue with up to 4% of the trucks which has no disclosed root cause and no known fix, although the tracking seems to indicate the majority of the trucks were from '22, with some '23's sprinkled in indicating there was a problem found and corrected.

Ford has no way to know which modules or batteries have this problem because some trucks have been in 3 times for module replacements.

Thanks for clarifying. When you say the tracking indicates fewer issues with 23s vs 22s, is that tracking referring to the posts in this forum, or some other data set?

I really want to buy a ‘23 MY (late ‘23 production) but am afraid to pull the trigger due to these battery issues. In my mind, 4% is not a trivial probability to potentially have to deal with a dead module or two. It would be nice if Ford confirmed if they have addressed the root cause or not; in the absence of such confirmation, the buyer has to make an assumption…

 

[RickLightning]

Contacted BEV group today, totally unsatisfying. Despite CSP saying that Ford would proactively reach out, they haven't yet. I called in, and basically they said nothing happens until dealer diagnoses the issue. CSP doesn't read that way.

 

[RickLightning]

Contacted BEV group today, totally unsatisfying. Despite CSP saying that Ford would proactively reach out, they haven't yet. I called in, and basically they said nothing happens until dealer diagnoses the issue. CSP doesn't read that way.

My Service Manager was very responsive (he always is). They need the vehicle to run pinpoint tests to identify exactly what needs to be replaced array-wise.

He approved a loaner, and we'll see what the test run next Tuesday shows. They did a bunch back when the CSP was issued, but none in some time.

 

[Mike G]

This just in...the FSA 23B57 has been put on hold temporarily.

From what I understand it's just until they sort out the powertrain software and release an update.

Message in OASIS this morning:

 

[bmwhitetx]

This just in...the FSA 23B57 has been put on hold temporarily.

From what I understand it's just until they sort out the powertrain software and release an update.

Message in OASIS this morning:

I know CSP but what is an FSA?
I wonder if this means they aren't to replace the battery modules now if the pinpoint cell test shows it out of spec?? (Mine has been scheduled for 3 weeks to be replaced "soon").

 

[TaxmanHog]

FSA

Field Service Action

 

[Mike G]

I know CSP but what is an FSA?
I wonder if this means they aren't to replace the battery modules now if the pinpoint cell test shows it out of spec?? (Mine has been scheduled for 3 weeks to be replaced "soon").

Field Service Action.

In this case it means don't do the current powertrain updates because we need to fix the powertrain software first.

I can tell you that those of us who have done the most recent powertrain updates ourselves have been stuck with a daily DTC for the SOBDM and SOBDMC that won't clear. Truck is driveable, but obviously this condition is 'sub-optimal'.

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