I did a deep dive into Lightning Level 2 efficiency today!

[Nklem]

What fun. I left my empty android phone with CarScanner pro on my truck all day at work while it charged. The data is only as good as Ford reports but good enough.

so for example, my inlet volts were 208.8 and current 32.0 Amps for a portion of the day. It fluctuated from 31-32 amps. I chose a moment in time, 9:48 AM for a calc time. So we had 208.8V and 32 Amps for an input measured by the Truck at 6.656 kWh. I also took that moment to see what the trucks DC charger was putting on the the battery, it was 351.7V and 17.3 Amps which is 6.08441 kWh. So the efficiency is 91.4% efficient At the level 2 to The battery.

I also started at 48.04 kWh in the pack and ended with 85.62 over 387.5 minutes. I am downloading the CSV file to excel to do a real calculation. I bet it’s 90% or better.

So I think Fords issue is somewhat of an inaccurate battery kWh capacity. Anyway it’s about 90% or a little more. No cooling came on today either. It all went to the battery.

I will try again with my ChargePoint next weekend. I may have to do a full charge….since I have to do a 198 mile trip to Grandmas.

this is so fun…..

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[Grumpy2]

I am surprised the truck charger will accept 208volts.

 

[Calvin H-C]

I am surprised the truck charger will accept 208volts.

If it didn't, there would be a whole lot of public chargers on commercial property that would be useless.

 

[bmwhitetx]

What fun. I left my empty android phone with CarScanner pro on my truck all day at work while it charged. The data is only as good as Ford reports but good enough.

so for example, my inlet volts were 208.8 and current 32.0 Amps for a portion of the day. It fluctuated from 31-32 amps. I chose a moment in time, 9:48 AM for a calc time. So we had 208.8V and 32 Amps for an input measured by the Truck at 6.656 kWh. I also took that moment to see what the trucks DC charger was putting on the the battery, it was 351.7V and 17.3 Amps which is 6.08441 kWh. So the efficiency is 91.4% efficient At the level 2 to The battery.

I also started at 48.04 kWh in the pack and ended with 85.62 over 387.5 minutes. So got 37.58 kWh over that time. When I do the efficiency calc based on an average of 31.5 Amps and 209V=42.52 kWh gross. So that works out 88.4%. I am downloading the CSV file to excel to do a real calculation. I bet it’s 90% or so.

So I think Fords issue is somewhat of an inaccurate battery kWh capacity. Anyway it’s about 90% or a little more or a little less. No cooling came on today either. It all went to the battery.

I will try again with my ChargePoint next weekend. I may have to do a full charge….since I have to do a 198 mile trip to Grandmas.

this is so fun…..

I’m not sure I understand the premise of this post. All battery chargers have to convert AC to DC and a 90% efficiency is typical. Your truck has two Onboard Charge Controllers.

So if the battery has a nominal capacity of 100 kWh, the charger itself will use/need/require 111 kWh to charge from 0 to 100. Not all the input energy goes to the battery. In this example 11 kWh is lost to heat during the AC/DC conversion in the onboard charger.

Saying Ford has put in only 90% of the stated battery capacity or the battery is 90% efficient is incorrect.

 

[Nklem]

Final tally.. I downloaded the whole charge from Carscanner and Input charge Voltage and Current and Output as well as battery absorbed power.
40.00160 kWH Into the trucks DC charger from my work level 2 charger.
36.8887 kWH from the charger out to the Trucks battery
Calculates to an Exact 92.2% truck charger efficiency.

Battery kWH calcs are obviously off a bit from the Ford BMS, but the Battery says it absorbed 37.540 kwh .

I am happy to report the lightning onboard charger is truly 92% efficient taking power from a 208V/32A feed to the battery. I am sure there are some heat losses in the battery but cooling or heating was not needed and the battery temp started at 69.8F and ended at 66.2F during the charge time.

 

[Nklem]

I’m not sure I understand the premise of this post. All battery chargers have to convert AC to DC and a 90% efficiency is typical. Your truck has two Onboard Charge Controllers.

So if the battery has a nominal capacity of 100 kWh, the charger itself will use/need/require 111 kWh to charge from 0 to 100. Not all the input energy goes to the battery. In this example 11 kWh is lost to heat during the AC/DC conversion in the onboard charger.

Saying Ford has put in only 90% of the stated battery capacity or the battery is 90% efficient is incorrect.

I posted another scan from home where it showed 82% Level 2 Charging efficiency, metered power into my Level 2 home charger to actual charged power to the battery of the truck. On two occasions I have calculated this efficiency and something was not right or the lightning charger is terribly inefficient both times showing 82% charging losses. But I did not trend all the exhaustive data points I only looked a the Battery KWH before and After as well as my Chargepoint meter.

Yesterday I did a deep dive into the charge data while letting CarscannerPro log all day every minute my trucks BMS data at work for a true IN versus OUT calculation for overall Charger efficiency. All of my previous EVs have been 90% (2-Mach E's) to 92% (2-Hyundais) and a Solterra. Now I know the Lightning is truly 92.2%.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...ve-into-real-level-2-charge-efficiency.19593/

 

[bmwhitetx]

I posted another scan from home where it showed 82% Level 2 Charging efficiency, metered power into my Level 2 home charger to Power to the battery of the truck. On two occasions I have calculated this efficeincy and something was not right or the lightning charger is terribly inefficient showing 82%.

Yesterday I did a deep dive into the charge data while letting CarscannerPro log all day every minute my trucks BMS data at work for a true IN versus OUT calculation for overall Charger efficiency. All of my previous EVs have been 90% (2-Mach E's) to 92% Hyundai. Now I know the Lightning is truly 92.2%.

I had not read all those other posts. My comment above was strictly from your statement:
"So I think Fords issue is somewhat of an inaccurate battery kWh capacity. Anyway it’s about 90% or a little more or a little less. "

I read this as you thought Ford's battery was somehow only 90% rated or efficient. So just a semantics issue. We're good.

 

[chl]

It's a futile academic exercise that will never reveal how many kWhrs precisely got stored in the battery in your vehicle. You can only get an estimate, a fairly good one we hope, from the on-board numbers.

There is no real way to precisely tell you the efficiency, capacity or SOC of your battery from the data gathered while it is in the truck.

Too many problems with the on-board measurements, limitations in precision capabilities.

The only way to really know the Li battery capacity, efficiency or the SOC achieved is to have the battery in a test lab, charge the battery then discharge the battery, measuring the energy in and the energy out from the battery terminals.

Your Ford's collection and display of battery info is all estimates so using that info to calculate charging efficiency is kind of pointless, unless you accept that the result one comes up with is just an educated guess.

I did a lot of the same math when I first got my 2012 Leaf in Dec. 2011, I am an electrical engineer so it comes naturally. In the end all that I really care about is ifI have enough energy to get from point A to point B, and how much is charging my vehicle costing me compared with the price of gas. Knowing that with a certain degree of imprecision is something I have to accept.

The range number changes with driving style, temperature, driving conditions (uphill, downhill, level surface, headwind, tailwind), so it is a moving target, requiring me to allow a margin for the uncertainty.

My electric bill tells me how much it is costing me - I have time of day rates, so after 1am is when it costs the least and I charge my vehicles. I set them to charge for a set period of time, and limit the estimated SOC to 80%.

After having an EV for over 10 years I learned to just fly by the seat of my pants so to speak. So far so good.

 

[Nklem]

It's a futile academic exercise that will never reveal how many kWhrs precisely got stored in the battery in your vehicle. You can only get an estimate, a fairly good one we hope, from the on-board numbers.

There is no real way to precisely tell you the efficiency, capacity or SOC of your battery from the data gathered while it is in the truck.

Too many problems with the on-board measurements, limitations in precision capabilities.

The only way to really know the Li battery capacity, efficiency or the SOC achieved is to have the battery in a test lab, charge the battery then discharge the battery, measuring the energy in and the energy out from the battery terminals.

Your Ford's collection and display of battery info is all estimates so using that info to calculate charging efficiency is kind of pointless, unless you accept that the result one comes up with is just an educated guess.

I did a lot of the same math when I first got my 2012 Leaf in Dec. 2011, I am an electrical engineer so it comes naturally. In the end all that I really care about is ifI have enough energy to get from point A to point B, and how much is charging my vehicle costing me compared with the price of gas. Knowing that with a certain degree of imprecision is something I have to accept.

The range number changes with driving style, temperature, driving conditions (uphill, downhill, level surface, headwind, tailwind), so it is a moving target, requiring me to allow a margin for the uncertainty.

My electric bill tells me how much it is costing me - I have time of day rates, so after 1am is when it costs the least and I charge my vehicles. I set them to charge for a set period of time, and limit the estimated SOC to 80%.

After having an EV for over 10 years I learned to just fly by the seat of my pants so to speak. So far so good.

Exactly what I found. Anything Battery Capacity or % related is an estimated number and cannot be exact, especially on the Lightning . One interesting thing is my Hyundai Ioniq 5 was spot on every time. Even mi/kWh, kWh charged multiplied by 0.92 always matched BMS battery actual kWh and percentages data. You could drive for 100 miles, no climate, log your mi/kWh and your battery was depleted exactly that number displayed times miles diminished. So Scary accurate. So was my 2019 Ioniq. I guess I got spoiled. The Ford is good enough. At least it’s better than my 82% calc which was worrying. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Heliian]

I hit about 89-90% power in power out on Tuesday but it was just below 10degC so some power went to warming for sure. This also includes the preconditioning for my morning commute, cabin medium.

At the end of the day, all I can confirm for sure is that this truck costs me about a quarter of what the ole gasser did. Gas here today is 1.71$/L.

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