Nation's First F-150 Lightning Vehicle-To-Home Grid Support Successful (Operated by Sunrun)

[COrocket]

Estimated at $800 for access to 488 hours of discharging. If every hour the vehicle is discharging a full 9.6kW, this is 4,685 kWh of energy supplied. That works out to ~$0.17/kWh of delivered energy.

Also, 12.5 years to pay back if not valuing resiliency benefits if it takes $10k to install, at the full $800 per year benefit estimate, unless getting a 30% tax credit on it which would make it 8.75 years.

$0.17/kwh and thousands of dollars in equipment ain’t even close to being worth it. I’d rather save the yearly 10,000 miles of wear and tear on my drivetrain that this system would impose.

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[chl]

I cannot wait until products like the HIS (but with greater reliability and lower cost) are more prevalent. Probably gonna be a while before that's the case though. Hopefully Ford will open up the software for 3rd party products at that time.

But to charge my truck at a discounted rate and then powering my house during peak demand periods and have it seemlessly switch back and forth is a dream of mine.

Do it with the ProPower On-Board up to 7.2kW through the 240v/30A outlet via a transfer switch.
And you could use extension cords to get the other 2.4kW from the 120v/20A outlets.

A lot less expensive than the HIS with install, which some have said cost them close to $10k, including the FCSP install.

The Home Integration System can be bought for $3900 at: https://his.aeesolar.com/s/product/...ble-ford-home-backup-power/01t1Q000008Hdl9QAC

Then you can have some one other than Sunrun install it (or DIY) if you like. Any good electrician should be able to handle it if they follow the instructions carefully.

Some on the thread, but not all, say they have had issues with Sunrun, including being unhappy with the price for the install. I called them myself in May 2024, but they said they were no longer installing solar in my county (Fairfax Virginia), I said what about the HIS, and they said they'd have some one get in touch with me - crickets so far.

Anyway, paying $10k for the extra 20A compared to what a $400 manual transfer switch and a $100 30A generator cord plugged in to the truck bed can do seems a stretch for me.

If I had a solar install to integrate with the truck output I might consider the $3900 HIS equipment. My understanding is the Lightning/FCSP was integrated into a previously existing solar/battery storage inverter backup system made by Sunrun. So it would be seamless to integrate solar into it.

 

[Danface]

Mass has a connected battery program:
https://www.nationalgridus.com/MA-H...yProgram?regionkey=masselec&customertype=home

but only for solar batteries.

And a V2G that has only been used for school buses:
https://www.wbur.org/news/2023/04/18/beverly-electric-school-bus-summer-grid

I'd bet V2G will be here in the next few years.

 

[adoublee]

$0.17/kwh and thousands of dollars in equipment ain’t even close to being worth it. I’d rather save the yearly 10,000 miles of wear and tear on my drivetrain that this system would impose.

More like 1,600 miles of energy throughput based on the new 50kWh per week for 16 weeks. And value is more like $1/kWh based on the new information. But more important is that there are no moving parts here - can hardly call it use of the powertrain. A 131kWh battery will hardly even notice 5kW of charging or discharging.

 

[chl]

Hum, Thank you, while I do not have a 98kWh back up battery, I'll take my SunPower Battery system any day . . minutes for the system to know it's w/o power? Huh With my system, you NEVER know there's a power outage unless your looking at the batteries when the power goes out . .and . . .the truck can be running errands somewhere else at the time of the power outage,,,,

Do you have an Enphase system or what make/model?

Yes the Sunrun HIS takes a few minutes after loss of utility power to switch to the Lightning, according to YouTube videos of it in operation.

It seems to me, using the Lightning as the battery backup through a net metering arrangement might be a good idea if on a time of day plan and utility prices are very high during peak demand times, although they are usually during the daytime when the Lightning would be in use in the summer.

In my area on my time-of-day EV program, between 1am and 5am the cost is 4.8 cents/kWh.
The peak time is 1-7pm (7 hours) an the cost is 15.95 cents/kWh.

It is a hard calculation to make to decide whether the savings from using the Lightning for net metering is a good idea.

On the one hand some money would be saved at the inconvenience of not being able to drive the Lightning during those hours.

On the other hand, the battery probably has 1500 to 2000 lifetime charge cycles and the net metering would add additional charge cycles over what would be incurred through normal non-net metering use, thereby shortening it's lifetime some amount.

It might be insignificant, but I haven't tried to calculate it.

The BGE program 488 hours (June 1 and Sept 30 =122 days between 5-9pm =4 hours) for $800 ("estimated to be") is $1.64 per day.

I wondered if, on our time of day plan, during peak hours in the summer, based on how much we typically use in summer per day, how much it would save money to net meter during those peak hours.

On my plan, between 1-7pm summer, the rate is 15.95 cents/kWh.
We might use as much as 1130kWh a month in the summer, or about 38kWh per day.
Assuming constant usage at all hours, that would be about 38/7=5.43kWh during peak time in summer.

5.43kWh x 15.95 cents/kWh = about 87 cents per day
122 days x 87 cents = $106.14

Not sure it is worth the inconvenience to me of not having the Lightning for driving during those hours every day.

Seems to me, the utilities should be building their own solar and wind farms, and battery back-up facilities, rather than vampiring electricity they sold us back from Lightnings and other EV, to meet the net-zero emissions goals.

 

[chl]

More like 1,600 miles of energy throughput based on the new 50kWh per week for 16 weeks. And value is more like $1/kWh based on the new information. But more important is that there are no moving parts here - can hardly call it use of the powertrain. A 131kWh battery will hardly even notice 5kW of charging or discharging.

50kW is about 38% of a charging cycle for a 131kWh battery.
Some estimates are 1500 to 2000 charge cycles for these EV batteries.
16 weeks x 38% = about 6 additional charging cycles
If it was all year, 52 weeks, then 52 x 38% = 19.76 additional charge cycles per year
So about 1.3% of the life of the battery per years, assuming 1500 charge cycles.

Seems like not a big deal if my numbers are right.

A bit higher if the battery is SR and 98kWh.

 

[adoublee]

50kW is about 38% of a charging cycle for a 131kWh battery.
Some estimates are 1500 to 2000 charge cycles for these EV batteries.
16 weeks x 38% = about 6 additional charging cycles
If it was all year, 52 weeks, then 52 x 38% = 19.76 additional charge cycles per year
So about 1.3% of the life of the battery per years, assuming 1500 charge cycles.

Seems like not a big deal if my numbers are right.

A bit higher if the battery is SR and 98kWh.

Yes, and those 1500 to 2000 cycles is probably an end of life number based on battery having 80% of original capacity (but still very useful).

 

[LightningDoug]

I wonder how many HIS systems are functional and reliable enough to make this worth the effort?

Too many poor performance reports from our members who invested in the system just for home backup, never mind grid support.

i bought my 22 Lightning for it’s V2H capability using a Sunrun HIS, installed February ‘23. It worked perfectly until Feb ‘24 Ford Pass update which removed my Pro Charger from the truck disabling the HIS until early June allowed me to reconnect my Pro to the truck. It’s a three day process. The patch lasted until last Friday.

After a recall replacement of the truck’s battery module or ???? my Pro Charger needs to be reconnected to the truck as it’s home charger & the HIS is off x 2 days/awaiting reset tomorrow to perhaps get the HIS working again.

I’m very frustrated

 

[Jake24]

I’m very frustrated

f'n nightmare

 

[chl]

i bought my 22 Lightning for it’s V2H capability using a Sunrun HIS, installed February ‘23. It worked perfectly until Feb ‘24 Ford Pass update which removed my Pro Charger from the truck disabling the HIS until early June allowed me to reconnect my Pro to the truck. It’s a three day process. The patch lasted until last Friday.

After a recall replacement of the truck’s battery module or ???? my Pro Charger needs to be reconnected to the truck as it’s home charger & the HIS is off x 2 days/awaiting reset tomorrow to perhaps get the HIS working again.

I’m very frustrated

I can't seem to get FordPass connected to my FCSP. It finds it fine but won't do the final step - I get a "ChargePoint Not Found" error - whatever the Fudge that means.

So yet another reason to be wary of spending big bucks on the HIS.

For about $500-$600 I can have a 7200kW backup through a Generac 6853 manual transfer switch an 100 ft of generator cable.

 

[Traconesu]

That is a very valid question about the reliability of the existing HIS systems. I've had the HIS for backup power for almost 20 months now and it has gotten better but still has it's issues. Even when it is working as advertised, when a power outage occurs, it can take several minutes to detect it and supply power to the house.

The HIS works much better for this Grid Offset mode. At 5pm, it starts supplying power to the house and at 9pm it stops. During the switchover, there are no power fluctuations. The lights don't flicker and none of my multiple UPS's beep. I've been pleasantly surprised at how seamless the power switchover has been compared to the backup power mode.

I have solar powering my home and as a backup I just switch a reliance transfer to my generator receptical, connect my 240 volt receptical in my truck, turn on my truck, disable auto shutdown and charge my solar batteries which power my home. A little more complicated for most, but as a 75 year old retired electrician, a piece of cake, cheaper, less complicated, & more reliable than home integration system. Then on sunny days, I use my 13 kw solar system to charge my truck with my excess solar power.

 

[Traconesu]

I can't seem to get FordPass connected to my FCSP. It finds it fine but won't do the final step - I get a "ChargePoint Not Found" error - whatever the Fudge that means.

So yet another reason to be wary of spending big bucks on the HIS.

For about $500-$600 I can have a 7200kW backup through a Generac 6853 manual transfer switch an 100 ft of generator cable.

I have solar powering my home and as a backup I just switch a reliance transfer to my generator receptical, connect my 240 volt receptical in my truck, turn on my truck, disable auto shutdown and charge my solar batteries which power my home. A little more complicated for most, but as a 75 year old retired electrician, a piece of cake, cheaper, less complicated, & more reliable than home integration system. Then on sunny days, I use my 13 kw solar system to charge my truck with my excess solar power.
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• Do it with the ProPower On-Board up to 7.2kW through the 240v/30A outlet via a transfer switch.
  And you could use extension cords to get the other 2.4kW from the 120v/20A outlets.
  
  A lot less expensive than the HIS with install, which some have said cost them close to $10k, including the FCSP install.
  
  The Home Integration System can be bought for $3900 at: https://his.aeesolar.com/s/product/...ble-ford-home-backup-power/01t1Q000008Hdl9QAC
  
  Then you can have some one other than Sunrun install it (or DIY) if you like. Any good electrician should be able to handle it if they follow the instructions carefully.
  
  Some on the thread, but not all, say they have had issues with Sunrun, including being unhappy with the price for the install. I called them myself in May 2024, but they said they were no longer installing solar in my county (Fairfax Virginia), I said what about the HIS, and they said they'd have some one get in touch with me - crickets so far.
  
  Anyway, paying $10k for the extra 20A compared to what a $400 manual transfer switch and a $100 30A generator cord plugged in to the truck bed can do seems a stretch for me.
  
  If I had a solar install to integrate with the truck output I might consider the $3900 HIS equipment. My understanding is the Lightning/FCSP was integrated into a previously existing solar/battery storage inverter backup system made by Sunrun. So it would be seamless to integrate solar into it.

  I don't need all that expensive home integration system. Don't ever want to sell my power back to the grid.
• I have solar powering my home and as a backup I just switch a reliance transfer to my generator receptical, connect my 240 volt receptical in my truck, turn on my truck, disable auto shutdown and charge my solar batteries which power my home. A little more complicated for most, but as a 75 year old retired electrician, a piece of cake, cheaper, less complicated, & more reliable than home integration system. Then on sunny days, I use my 13 kw solar system to charge my truck with my excess solar power.
• Even if you paid an electrician to install your own system all you'd need would be a 2 pole breaker installed just under your main breaker with an interlock to ensure your generator receptical & main breaker couldn't be on simultaneously.
• Connect a NEMA L14-30P (Male) generator receptical to that breaker with appropriate size wire. Be aware your main panel and your truck both have bonded neutrals so you must leave the ground wire to the receptical disconnected else the truck will see it as a ground fault. Many may say this is unsafe, but not true as the neutral & ground are both tied together at both the truck and the main panel.
  
  
• I use a Power Extension Cord, 30 Amp, 4 Prong, NEMA L14-30P (Male), NEMA L14-30R (Female) https://a.co/d/eZhMD5H to connect my truck to that receptical.
• You may need to turn off larger current breakers such as central air to avoid overloading your truck because you'll only have 7200 watts of power available to you. But for the most part it will run everything in your home being careful not to operate too many appliances at the same time. Probably even your AC and/or electric stove if ran by themselves. Remembering this is an emergency situation and you want to conserve as much power as possible.
• Be sure to go to your vehicle screen and turn off auto shutdown else after 30 minutes your vehicle will shutdown and you'll loose power.
• This should all be done by a qualified electrician

• Do it with the ProPower On-Board up to 7.2kW through the 240v/30A outlet via a transfer switch.
  And you could use extension cords to get the other 2.4kW from the 120v/20A outlets.
  
  A lot less expensive than the HIS with install, which some have said cost them close to $10k, including the FCSP install.
  
  The Home Integration System can be bought for $3900 at: https://his.aeesolar.com/s/product/...ble-ford-home-backup-power/01t1Q000008Hdl9QAC
  
  Then you can have some one other than Sunrun install it (or DIY) if you like. Any good electrician should be able to handle it if they follow the instructions carefully.
  
  Some on the thread, but not all, say they have had issues with Sunrun, including being unhappy with the price for the install. I called them myself in May 2024, but they said they were no longer installing solar in my county (Fairfax Virginia), I said what about the HIS, and they said they'd have some one get in touch with me - crickets so far.
  
  Anyway, paying $10k for the extra 20A compared to what a $400 manual transfer switch and a $100 30A generator cord plugged in to the truck bed can do seems a stretch for me.
  
  If I had a solar install to integrate with the truck output I might consider the $3900 HIS equipment. My understanding is the Lightning/FCSP was integrated into a previously existing solar/battery storage inverter backup system made by Sunrun. So it would be seamless to integrate solar into it.

  • I don't need all that expensive home integration system. Don't ever want to sell my power back to the grid.
  • I have solar powering my home and as a backup I just switch a reliance transfer to my generator receptical, connect my 240 volt receptical in my truck, turn on my truck, disable auto shutdown and charge my solar batteries which power my home. A little more complicated for most, but as a 75 year old retired electrician, a piece of cake, cheaper, less complicated, & more reliable than home integration system. Then on sunny days, I use my 13 kw solar system to charge my truck with my excess solar power.
  • 
    
  • Even if you paid an electrician to install your own system all you'd need would be a 2 pole breaker installed just under your main breaker with an interlock to ensure your generator receptical & main breaker couldn't be on simultaneously.
  • 
    
  • Connect a NEMA L14-30P (Male) generator receptical to that breaker with appropriate size wire. Be aware your main panel and your truck both have bonded neutrals so you must leave the ground wire to the receptical disconnected else the truck will see it as a ground fault. Many may say this is unsafe, but not true as the neutral & ground are both tied together at both the truck and the main panel.
    
    
  • I use a Power Extension Cord, 30 Amp, 4 Prong, NEMA L14-30P (Male), NEMA L14-30R (Female) https://a.co/d/eZhMD5H to connect my truck to that receptical.
  • You may need to turn off larger current breakers such as central air to avoid overloading your truck because you'll only have 7200 watts of power available to you. But for the most part it will run everything in your home being careful not to operate too many appliances at the same time. Probably even your AC and/or electric stove if ran by themselves. Remembering this is an emergency situation and you want to conserve as much power as possible.
  • Be sure to go to your vehicle screen and turn off auto shutdown else after 30 minutes your vehicle will shutdown and you'll loose power.
  • This should all be done by a qualified electrician.

 

[Traconesu]

I don't need all that expensive home integration system. Don't ever want to sell my power back to the grid.

• I have solar powering my home and as a backup I just switch a reliance transfer to my generator receptical, connect my 240 volt receptical in my truck, turn on my truck, disable auto shutdown and charge my solar batteries which power my home. A little more complicated for most, but as a 75 year old retired electrician, a piece of cake, cheaper, less complicated, & more reliable than home integration system. Then on sunny days, I use my 13 kw solar system to charge my truck with my excess solar power.
• Even if you paid an electrician to install your own system all you'd need would be a 2 pole breaker installed just under your main breaker with an interlock to ensure your generator receptical & main breaker couldn't be on simultaneously.
• Connect a NEMA L14-30P (Male) generator receptical to that breaker with appropriate size wire. Be aware your main panel and your truck both have bonded neutrals so you must leave the ground wire to the receptical disconnected else the truck will see it as a ground fault. Many may say this is unsafe, but not true as the neutral & ground are both tied together at both the truck and the main panel.
  
  
• I use a Power Extension Cord, 30 Amp, 4 Prong, NEMA L14-30P (Male), NEMA L14-30R (Female) https://a.co/d/eZhMD5H to connect my truck to that receptical.
• You may need to turn off larger current breakers such as central air to avoid overloading your truck because you'll only have 7200 watts of power available to you. But for the most part it will run everything in your home being careful not to operate too many appliances at the same time. Probably even your AC and/or electric stove if ran by themselves. Remembering this is an emergency situation and you want to conserve as much power as possible.
• Be sure to go to your vehicle screen and turn off auto shutdown else after 30 minutes your vehicle will shutdown and you'll loose power.
• This should all be done by a qualified electrician

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