Observations after 1,000 miles

[dirtwheeler]

This is a follow-up to my posts on observations after 200 miles and 500 miles, posted here:

• https://www.4runner6g.com/forum/threads/observations-after-200-miles.2607/
• https://www.4runner6g.com/forum/threads/observations-after-500-miles.2705/

The last 500 miles since my last post included some freeway miles, some driving in the mountains of Colorado, and some light (but fast) off-roading.

On Interstate freeways, the 4Runner continues to handle great, as expected. No surprises there. It has plenty of power for passing and is an overall smooth vehicle for driving. I took it up past 11,000 feet elevation in the mountains, on fast unpaved county roads, and unmaintained forest service roads with deep ruts and minor obstacles requiring sufficient clearance.

I drove the 4Runner in “normal” mode for the first 500 miles, then mostly “eco” mode for the last 500 miles. The only time I put it into “sport” mode was on some fast off-road trails that I thought would be fun to hit a little harder.

On mountain highways, I have been paying a lot of attention to how the LDA and LTA systems work. I found their descriptions (and names) in the manual a little confusing, but here’s how I would describe their operation now. LDA makes reactive steering corrections (and provides alerts of course) and can’t really be turned on and off on-the-fly, but it can be disabled. I have left LDA on for the first 1,000 miles, but I’ve also gone through the menus ensuring that I can turn it off and on. LTA makes proactive steering adjustments and can easily be turned on and off on-the-fly.

LDA is not always “correct” in its attempts to keep you safe. There have been times when I’ve needed to steer to avoid obstacles and was met with additional resistance from the LDA system. While it’s not perfect, overall, I believe it is a system that adds safety to the vehicle. – most of the time. I think where LDA can be most beneficial is in moments of distraction. While I do strive to be a safe driver and strive to not “need” these additional safety systems, I don’t think that they hurt.

The LDA system reminds me of a time in college when my roommate was driving back from the airport, and I was a passenger in his truck. On the way back, I noticed my roommate looked very tired. I asked if he wanted me to drive (I was wide awake). He declined. A while later he started drifting off the road. I asked again if I could drive, and he declined again. This happened several times more, until he got so far off the road that I insisted that I drive, or he let me out of the vehicle. At first, he resisted, insisting that he was OK and continued to drive. But I was persistent and insisted that he pull over to let me out. Eventually, he gave in and let me drive. He fell asleep on the way back, as a passenger. If he was driving by himself, I assume he would have crashed on the Interstate, possibly killing himself and others. I have since speculated about what would happen in an LDA/LTA equipped vehicle. It is my understanding that if the driver is unresponsive (e.g., asleep or suffering a debilitating medical issue), the vehicle will come to a stop. I hope that it engages emergency signals as well! So, now I’m waiting to read stories about people who stopped on the Interstate asleep in Toyota vehicles.

So, the LDA is reactive, and the LTA is proactive in my observations. That’s how I would have described it in the manual, in reference to mechanical steering adjustments, ignoring other aspects of the system (how the driver is alerted and what the vehicle does when the driver is unresponsive).

I am still trying to decide how much I “like” the LTA system. Right now, I think it’s more useful for roads that are less windy. On windy mountain roads, I’m not sure I like it. I went back and forth to driving with it off and on. It gives you this sense that it’s easier to turn (less resistance) as you go into corners but gives you a sense of unnatural resistance if your instinct for where you think your tires should be deviates from exactly how the vehicle attempts to guide you. So, in some sense LTA is making it “easier” to turn, but you must get used to its nuances. I described this system as a little “creepy” feeling before. I would also say you feel a little less connected to the road, which I’m not sure is always a good thing. So, I’ll continue to use it in some situations and turn it off in other situations.

One thing I have been pleasantly surprised by is the combination of all the cruise control features. While I might prefer to maintain control of steering, it’s nice to give my foot a rest from continuous pedal adjustments. The DRCC keeps a reasonable distance from traffic in front of you. I had mentioned before that I tend to hang back a little more than the DRCC maxed out, but the distance it maintains is still generally safe.

Cruise control will also reduce your speed by applying the brake (e.g., in a downhill situation where you would normally accelerate due to gravity or anticipating the need to slow down for corners). There’s an indicator on the dash (two red bars) corresponding to braking adjustments made by cruise control. I tested this today in a downhill windy section that I drive regularly. My old truck (Ram 1500) had cruise control, but it did not adjust based on vehicles in front of my truck, curve anticipation, or to resist downhill acceleration. In this section of my drive, the truck would accelerate into corners, so it would be very dangerous to leave the vehicle in a cruise control mode. However, the 4Runner maintained a max speed set by cruise control and appropriately reduced speed around corners. What this means from my perspective is that I could more comfortably drive down mountain roads. The main concern being that I was able to quickly move my foot to the brake if there was a deer or some other issue in the road. But there’s also some comfort in knowing that the vehicle will automatically apply brakes in some of these situations.

So, there’s only so much you can say about normal driving. You go forward. You slow down. You stop. And you steer as needed to not kill yourself or others. The 4Runner does all that fine, as do most vehicles, but with some cool new bells and whistles that I have not had before. For the most part, I like all these features for convenience and safety. My “complaints” are just the minor things that I personally think would move these systems a little closer to perfection.

But I got to do some less-normal driving too. While I still haven’t taken my 4Runner on the typical slow, technical trails I’m used to in northern Colorado, I did get to take it on some faster off-road trails. This is where we got to bounce around a little and have some fun.

The suspension on this 4Runner really shines, although I’m comparing it mostly to my old Jeep with crappy suspension that needs to be replaced soon. I still haven’t been on trails with the 4Runner that “require” four-wheel drive or lockers, but I experimented with most of the off-road features while I had it off-pavement. There were no real surprises, but I appreciated how easy it was to switch between two-high, four-high, four-low, and lock/unlock the rear differential. I experimented a little with the MTS modes, but I need to do some more reading and experimenting to determine if/how I’d ever want to take advantage of these settings (versus just drive in a way appropriate to the situation).

IMO, the sound system is OK, not great. I’m trying to reserve judgement on this because I haven’t attempted to adjust anything other than the volume so far, and sound quality can be subjective. I’ve spent a lot of time around people that were very into their sound systems, so I know enough to know that “those people” will be underwhelmed with this system. But I’m happy if the speakers don’t sound like they’re blown, muddy, or distorted. I just listen to SiriusXM, Spotify and Audible (via Android Auto). I’ve tested the normal FM/AM radio stations just to make sure I get reception. It’s annoying that every time I hit the “mode” button, I must cycle through options I’ll never use (e.g., Amazon Music), but that’s a minor complaint.

I don’t know yet whether I’ll pay for SiriusXM after the trial period ends. It seems a little overpriced for what it is, especially since I already have Spotify and don’t have to listen to commercials or annoying DJs on Spotify. I do like getting news channel audio on SiriusXM and it’s well integrated into the 4Runner. You just select all your favorite channels, and then you can cycle through them with the arrow buttons on the steering wheel. This works well for skipping through songs in Spotify play lists as well.

The only other annoyance I haven’t figured out yet is that every now and then the rear window will not come back up using the outside button. It just beeps at me, and I end up having to roll it up from the button in the cab. I’m guessing that I’m doing something wrong.

So, I have very few minor “complaints” (some of which I’ll get used to or resolve in some way). Overall, I am very happy with this 4Runner. What stands out most to me is the acceleration power, especially compared to similar SUVs I’ve driven, and how comfortable it is to drive (ergonomics, suspension, and various driving features). I realize that it isn’t a luxury vehicle, but there’s nothing more I can really think of that I really want. The only feature I can think of that I’ve had in the past that isn’t included on my 4Runner is rain sensing windshield wipers (which truly isn’t that big of a deal). I know there are plenty of other fancy features that perhaps I would miss if I had ever experienced them. For off-road capability, it lacks some features that my heavily modified Jeep has, but I would be making other compromises to have those features on my 4Runner.

Strangely, I’ve driven 1,000 miles in Colorado in the winter and haven’t had the opportunity to drive in any real icy or heavy snow conditions yet (I’m not complaining about this). But I’m sure that will change. I’m very curious to see how these stock tires do in ice and hard packed snow. I’m hoping to get through the rest of this winter, take advantage of the new stock tires this summer for some road trips, then get some better tires installed by next winter. I’ve got KO3s on my Jeep that I’ve been happy with, so I might get the same tires for the 4Runner.

As far as next plans for this 4Runner, I have one Moab trip planned soon, and we’ll start getting it out on more road trips and more off-roading in the summer. At least now we’re past the 1,000 mile break in period!

 

[Nodak]

not sure if this has been said before in your other posts, but be careful of DRCC. there are threads on the tundra forums where DRCC had burn thru the rear brakes within 20-30k miles.

i have notice on our 23 tundra, i never use DRCC but the wife does and the rears have more wear thru than the fronts from the report on our last oil change.

 

[brumey]

Great write up again. I have to say, better than many automotive journalists and YouTubers. I am curious if you will be getting your oil changed at 1K or push it to 5or even 10K?

 

[Cityzen10]

Great write up. I'm at about 500miles so far and I have noticed some similar things with the LDA and LTA. I disabled the LTA, I really don't like it. The LDA I do have on but still deciding whether or not I like it. I have to dodge a few large potholes every day on the way to work which causes me to ride on the center line (don't worry its 4am and nobody else is on the roads lol). The LDA doesn't like me doing this and it's a tad annoying.

It has been rainy the past couple of weeks here and one thing I notice is when I get in to drive it after it sits and gets rained on, is when I come to a stop, the water on the hood rolls forward and as soon as it hits the grill it sprays up onto the windshield. It's a strange feeling to have water spray up on the windshield while slowing down but not at full speed. Doesn't bother me though, just an observation.

One last thing is I can't get the hands free back hatch feature to work for the life of me. It just won't recognize my foot. Admittedly, I haven't dug through the manual at all so I'm sure it's operator error of some sort.

Aside from these VERY minor things, I am absolutely loving it. Can't wait to get to 1000miles and through the break in period so I can feel free to really let her rip!

 

[mars001]

Thanks for the excellent write-up. How exactly do LTA and LDA work? Can you still turn the steering wheel normally when in LDA? I understand that LTA only works when in cruise control?

 

[4RunnerStan]

have you had any whistling at highway speeds with the air dam taken off?

 

[nh1ingy]

I'm having a hard time getting used to the adaptive cruise control. I'm not used to it slowing down by itself when coming up on another vehicle. I'll be driving and talking and all of a sudden I'm going way slower as it matches the car in front of me. I have been learning to change lanes very early on now. I'm used to a cruise control you set and it just stays at that speed, the same with corners. This new system is way safer, but still takes some getting used to.

 

[dirtwheeler]

not sure if this has been said before in your other posts, but be careful of DRCC. there are threads on the tundra forums where DRCC had burn thru the rear brakes within 20-30k miles.

i have notice on our 23 tundra, i never use DRCC but the wife does and the rears have more wear thru than the fronts from the report on our last oil change.

I was thinking about this while using cruise control. It does "ride the brakes" more than I would if I was driving without cruise control. I had not heard about the rear brakes wearing faster in cruise control, but good to know.

 

[Nodak]

I was thinking about this while using cruise control. It does "ride the brakes" more than I would if I was driving without cruise control. I had not heard about the rear brakes wearing faster in cruise control, but good to know.

as long as you dont use radar cruise control and only use constant speed cruise control you shouldnt have premature brake wear

 

[dirtwheeler]

Great write up again. I have to say, better than many automotive journalists and YouTubers. I am curious if you will be getting your oil changed at 1K or push it to 5or even 10K?

My original plan was to have the first oil change done by now, but I put on 1,000 miles pretty quick and just haven't had time. I plan to do this "soon" though. If I remember correctly, the manual has a 5K mile change recommendation. So, the next oil change will be ASAP, then I'll try to get the next ones in under 5K. I'm not sure if "Toyota Care" will cover my first oil change if it's not near the 5K mark, so I was assuming I'd do the first one myself. I figure I'll get the OEM filter from the dealership parts store, and I'll use the recommended viscosity grade, but I haven't thought about the oil brand yet (probably Mobile 1).

 

[dirtwheeler]

It has been rainy the past couple of weeks here and one thing I notice is when I get in to drive it after it sits and gets rained on, is when I come to a stop, the water on the hood rolls forward and as soon as it hits the grill it sprays up onto the windshield. It's a strange feeling to have water spray up on the windshield while slowing down but not at full speed. Doesn't bother me though, just an observation.

I'm glad you mentioned this, but I wasn't sure what was happening or how to describe it. I notice it after going to the car wash. I've been taking it into the self-service carwash bays and not drying it off. I noticed the spray from the front of the hood too and though "what the hell?". It was almost like there was a sprayer on the front of the vehicle purging itself. Not a big deal, just weird.

One last thing is I can't get the hands free back hatch feature to work for the life of me. It just won't recognize my foot. Admittedly, I haven't dug through the manual at all so I'm sure it's operator error of some sort.

Glad you mentioned this too. Again, I wasn't sure whether to mention this or not (adding to my already long write-up). But here was my experience...

When I bought the 4Runner I didn't even know it had this feature. I read a few posts where people mentioned the feature so I tried it and it didn't work the first time. After some more investigation (reading manuals, watching YouTube videos, etc.) I suspected that the hands-free tailgate lift feature "should" work for me. So I spent some time looking like an idiot in my driveway probing my foot under the vehicle trying to find the sensor. Then eventually, voila, the back hatch opened. I even made my wife come out to see what I had learned. She's now used to me being a big dork, learning about these features, then showing them off.

Later, when I was feeling pretty slick walking with some groceries to my 4Runner in the parking lot, I thought I'd use the hands free feature, showing off for the world to see how cool my 4Runner was. I strutted up to the 4Runner, groceries in hand and confidently put my foot under the sensor as I had practiced before. Nothing. I tried a few more times adjusting my foot to different positions, groceries still in hand, but looking like a crazy man in the parking lot. I gave up and used the button to open it instead.

I have not attempted to use the hands-free feature since my last grocery trip, but I will experiment with it some more. I live to entertain the neighbors across the street as I learn to do everyday things.

 

[dirtwheeler]

Thanks for the excellent write-up. How exactly do LTA and LDA work? Can you still turn the steering wheel normally when in LDA? I understand that LTA only works when in cruise control?

For reference, the
Lane Departure Alert (LDA) indicator loooks like this:

And it looks like this when it is off:

Whereas, the (Lane Tracing Assist) LTA indicator looks like this:

I mentioned before that I didn't like how the system was described in the manual, but here's what it says...

LDA:
"The LDA system warns the driver if the vehicle may deviate from the current lane or course*, and also can slightly operate the steering wheel to help avoid deviation from the lane or course...
When the system determines that the vehicle might depart from its lane or course*, a warning is displayed on a display, and either a warning buzzer will sound or the steering wheel will vibrate to alert the driver."
(Page 275)

LTA:
"When driving on a road with clear lane lines with the dynamic radar cruise control operating, lane lines and preceding and surrounding vehicles are detected using the front camera and radar sensor, and the steering wheel is operated to maintain the vehicle’s lane position... Use the this function only on highways and expressways. If the dynamic radar cruise control is not operating, the function will not operate. In situations where the lane lines are difficult to see or are not visible, such as when in a traffic jam, support will be provided using the path of preceding and surrounding vehicles."
(Page 270)

While I was looking this up, I tripped across something I read before that I mentioned in my write-up, but didn't quote. I think it relevant here:

"The emergency driving stop system is a system which automatically decelerates and stops the vehicle within its lane if the driver becomes unable to continue driving the vehicle, such as if they have suffered a medical emergency, etc. During LTA (Lane Tracing Assist) control, if the system does not detect driving operations, such as if the driver is not holding the steering wheel, and determines the driver is not responsive, the vehicle will be decelerated and stopped within its current lane to help avoid a collision or reduce the impact of a collision."
(Page 305)

I have not tested this feature, and I will hopefully never need it! (But it's kind of nice to know it's there - on my vehicle, and on other vehicles).

As mentioned, I was focused more on the aspects of LDA and LTA that automatically engage the steering system. I would describe the LDA system as a reactive steering system and I think the description "slightly operate the steering" downplays what this feels like when it occurs. I wouldn't describe the operation as aggressive, but it wasn't slight either. I would describe the LTA system as a proactive steering system.

You can turn the steering wheel "normally" with both modes engaged. In fact, the system requires that you keep your hands on the wheel and maintain user control (presumably detecting this with torque sensors). You just might feel resistance if the LDA or LTA engages based on its sensors and automated decisions. But you can easily overcome this resistance. The experience might be different from person to person. I've spent a lot of my life in driving situations where I needed to know exactly where each of my tires were placed, and I've always been "sensitive" to any resistance (or lack thereof), indicating tire placement with respect to objects. Maybe that's a fancy way to say I was sensitive to bumps and mindful to not break expensive things, or get injured or killed (e.g., sliding/rolling off an icy cliff ledge)! So, receiving "intentional" resistance from the vehicle's hardware/software system takes some getting used to for me (differentiating resistance from the vehicle's automated systems, versus road and environmental causes). But I'm trying to have an open mind and leverage these systems for what they were designed for.

 

[dirtwheeler]

have you had any whistling at highway speeds with the air dam taken off?

I did notice one "new" high pitch sound recently while my wife and son were in the 4Runner at a higher speed. I asked if they heard it and they didn't. They are used to me hearing and obsessing over vehicle sounds (I have lots of stories). But, come to think of it, I haven't noticed it in a while. That could be due to a variety of reasons (driving in different conditions, driving with the radio on, etc.). It could have even been some weird mud or snow build up (doubt it). I mentioned I haven't been in any icy or hard-packed snow situations with this 4Runner yet, but I did drive through some snow, and a lot of mud. I'm pretty good about getting my vehicles to the carwash (automatic hands-free, or manual carwash with different pressure wash/rinse options).

But in general, I didn't notice any changes in sound that I could attribute to removing the air dam.

On a sidenote, one of my hesitations in getting a new roof rack is that I don't know what additional sounds it will introduce. I'm hoping to read about other people's experience before I upgrade the roof rack, but no hurries. I also have a GMRS antenna, but that doesn't seem to add any noticeable sounds either.

I do notice the subtle turbo engine sounds, especially between gear shifts, but you get used to it and it never bothered me. I much prefer it over the loud rumble of my Jeep's engine, but I've also had quieter vehicles. I have listened "very hard" to see if I can differentiate the natural engine noises, versus the supposed engine sound enhancement system. But I'm not certain how different the vehicle will sound if I decide to go to the trouble to disable this. It's certainly not something that bothers me, but since I've read about it enough, I'm curious how different the vehicle would sound with this system disabled.

 

[4RunnerStan]

I did notice one "new" high pitch sound recently while my wife and son were in the 4Runner at a higher speed. I asked if they heard it and they didn't. They are used to me hearing and obsessing over vehicle sounds (I have lots of stories). But, come to think of it, I haven't noticed it in a while. That could be due to a variety of reasons (driving in different conditions, driving with the radio on, etc.). It could have even been some weird mud or snow build up (doubt it). I mentioned I haven't been in any icy or hard-packed snow situations with this 4Runner yet, but I did drive through some snow, and a lot of mud. I'm pretty good about getting my vehicles to the carwash (automatic hands-free, or manual carwash with different pressure wash/rinse options).

But in general, I didn't notice any changes in sound that I could attribute to removing the air dam.

On a sidenote, one of my hesitations in getting a new roof rack is that I don't know what additional sounds it will introduce. I'm hoping to read about other people's experience before I upgrade the roof rack, but no hurries. I also have a GMRS antenna, but that doesn't seem to add any noticeable sounds either.

I do notice the subtle turbo engine sounds, especially between gear shifts, but you get used to it and it never bothered me. I much prefer it over the loud rumble of my Jeep's engine, but I've also had quieter vehicles. I have listened "very hard" to see if I can differentiate the natural engine noises, versus the supposed engine sound enhancement system. But I'm not certain how different the vehicle will sound if I decide to go to the trouble to disable this. It's certainly not something that bothers me, but since I've read about it enough, I'm curious how different the vehicle would sound with this system disabled.

good stuff. I appreciate the detailed response. it seems to be hit or miss if people have the whistling or not after taking off the air dam. Some people (like yourself) say there don't notice anything, other people say they get a whistling at highway speeds. From what I understand, there is a way to fix it if you do have the whistling (as the TRD Pro doesn't have the air dam for instance) but it doesn't seem to be happening to everyone. I'm flying up to Maryland in May to get my 4R and driving it down to Texas and I'm torn if I want them to remove the air dam or not. I'm leaning towards no because that drive is all highway driving and if there is a whistling, hearing that for the however many miles the drive is would drive me crazy. but I appreciate your response.

 

[dirtwheeler]

I'm having a hard time getting used to the adaptive cruise control. I'm not used to it slowing down by itself when coming up on another vehicle. I'll be driving and talking and all of a sudden I'm going way slower as it matches the car in front of me. I have been learning to change lanes very early on now. I'm used to a cruise control you set and it just stays at that speed, the same with corners. This new system is way safer, but still takes some getting used to.

The very first time I drove with adaptive cruise control, I didn't know this capability existed. I flew into San Diego, California and rented a vehicle to drive to Yuma, Arizona. I had the cruise control on at a fairly high speed on a four-lane high-way with very little traffic. I had been using cruise control, but wasn't paying attention to the fact that the vehicle had slowed down to match the speed of vehicle I caught up to. I started thinking how remarkable it was that the vehicle in front of me had been driving the exact same speed as my cruise control for such a long time. Then I started to put it all together!

Since then I have learned what a great system this is for long road trips. It does take some getting used to. My biggest fear is getting too used to these systems that are doing a lot of thinking for you (for my own driving and the people that are driving around me). In some cases, it's good to have this extra help, but I can also imagine situations where "bad things" happen because people have stopped paying as much attention to the road. Ultimately, I assume we'll eventually have cars that drive themselves better than their human occupants. But this 4Runner is not autonomous and I'm a little ways off from trusting a fully autonomous vehicle anyway - especially at freeway speeds in traffic or other dangerous situations.