Invited After Transferring to ZEV State Dealer

[Deleted member 9341]

1000% with you on this, I was going to say the same thing regarding long term customers!!

The dealers know their client base, months before the unveiling, all the dealers should have given the rookie and old time salesmen lead lists to go out and inform customers of an opportunity to buy Lightning.

Some customers would be ready jump at the reservation on their own, and some might need hand holding or assistance putting in that reservation, especially if they were busy with other life matters on the evening of May 9th 2021.

Once that day had passed (5/19) all bet's off, first in first out time stamp order only when the offers are issued in evenly allocated wave across the country regardless of state EV incentives.

Ford also should have mandated the markup being incorporated into the WEB ordering system, no allowance for opting out, forget to list it, to-bad/so-sad.

Right. And I would add it’s not like this came out of left field on 5/19. It was in the open for many months in advance, written about endlessly and much anticipated. You’d have to be on one serious year-long vacation on Mars to not have known in plenty of time to call your beloved dealer to make a plan. Anyway, whatever. Most of us knew to go online and click a few things and voila…done (also doable while on the beach on vacation). What came after making the reservation is a whole other story.

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[EaglesPDX]

Nobody that's successfully ordered a vehicle is PO'ed.

I'm sure I'd be happy too if I made a reservation No. 198,000 and jumped ahead of all those other reservations.

It makes the reservations meaningless and Ford was not transparent about it.

 

[EaglesPDX]

We can agree that the only people legitimately PO'ed on this site are day 1 reservation holders.

Nope...anyone who put in a reservation who had someone in back of them get a truck ahead of them while they are bounced years out has a reason to be angry at Ford.

Maybe I'll make some money on flipping it whenever I get it. We'll see if it still commands premium at that point. One advantage to not getting it is that Fords Federal EV tax credit will likely be over or reduced by that time which will make flipping it easier. Help pay for whatever EV I do buy in '22.

 

[jfried]

I'm sure I'd be happy too if I made a reservation No. 198,000 and jumped ahead of all those other reservations.

It makes the reservations meaningless and Ford was not transparent about it.

I'm not sure "meaningless" is the right word. Ultimately, day 1 reservations on average will likely get filled before day 2 reservations, etc.

The process just doesn't give as big an advantage to the tech-savvy guy on his computer, as that tech savvy guy would have wanted.

Honestly, I think it's almost similar to concert tickets.... where there's an on-sale date & time that usually occurs on a weekday in the mid-morning, which is really unfair to people that have 9-5 jobs, or don't have a whole warehouse of bots buying tickets.

Nope...anyone who put in a reservation who had someone in back of them get a truck ahead of them while they are bounced years out has a reason to be angry at Ford.

Maybe I'll make some money on flipping it whenever I get it. We'll see if it still commands premium at that point. One advantage to not getting it is that Fords Federal EV tax credit will likely be over or reduced by that time which will make flipping it easier. Help pay for whatever EV I do buy in '22.

Even if they simply followed the reservation timestamps, it would take them over a year to fill the day 1 orders. Very few of of the 200,000 reservation holders are on this forum, or any forum for that matter. Most don't know the ins & outs, or who will have "bumped them in line", they'll get their invite and be happy as a clam to order the truck given that it'll likely still be the only one on the market.

 

[wheelz2000]

So yeah I didn't think is still be waiting in line reserving so quickly that evening, but in the meantime, I just bought a small higher mileage older sedan to drive to take some of the wear off my truck while I wait to give it to my spouse as I was planning yo give my newer truck to her when ordering. My newer truck would be at 65k miles by the end of the year, so now I have an old sedan to help keep some mileage off. I for one didn't forecast having my truck that long, but I guess that's how this is plating out for several folks as well. Oh well, we gotta do what we gotta do. What a lottery this has become! I think I can say the fun is wearing off by now, but gonna hang in there as patience is a virtue...or so I'm told.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Ultimately, day 1 reservations on average will likely get filled before day 2 reservations, etc.

3,000 Ford dealerships each with five (or more?) spots completely out of the reservation system would see MOST of the first 15,000 not be Day 1 reservations.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

How many of them are PO'ed to the point of it actually affecting a future purchasing decision?

I imagine quite a few... myself included. I went from leaning heavily toward the Lightning to being almost certain I'm going to buy a Rivian instead. The soonest I'll receive either one is 2023... And I reserved a Lightning very early 5/19.

Despite having a very early timestamp, I ended up around 15th in line after prioritization. My dealer was only allocated 1 Lightning for 2022. My dealer is not small either. Not big... But also not small.

I believe there are way more people who share my predicament and opinions on the matter than you think.

I'm so disappointed with how Ford handled the reservation and order process that I likely will not consider buying another Ford for quite some time.

At first I thought the reservation system would be fair and actually make the process smoother. Boy was I wrong.

I much prefer the process for the Mach e. I never reserved the Mach e in advance. I simply ordered one online about 2 weeks before the first customer delivery took place.

It was very similar to the online orders for the Lightning, except nobody was prioritized by dealers. I submitted my order, and a couple months later Ford sent me the VIN and build date. I had my Mach e 6 months after placing the order.

How was I able to get a Mach e ordered, built, and delivered in 6 months, but I can't even get the opportunity to order a Lightning despite having one of the first reservations? It's completely irrational.

 

[vandy1981]

Nobody that's successfully ordered a vehicle is PO'ed.

I've successfully ordered my trim of choice and am really annoyed with how Ford handled the invite process. Ford didn't need to give dealers the option to prioritize customers. It only served to irritate those who were most enthusiastic about the Lightning and created a lot of bad press for Ford when a very small minority of dealers decided to "sell" priority spots.

 

[jfried]

I imagine quite a few... myself included. I went from leaning heavily toward the Lightning to being almost certain I'm going to buy a Rivian instead. The soonest I'll receive either one is 2023... And I reserved a Lightning very early 5/19.

Despite having a very early timestamp, I ended up around 15th in line after prioritization. My dealer was only allocated 1 Lightning for 2022. My dealer is not small either. Not big... But also not small.

I believe there are way more people who share my predicament and opinions on the matter than you think.

I'm so disappointed with how Ford handled the reservation and order process that I likely will not consider buying another Ford for quite some time.

At first I thought the reservation system would be fair and actually make the process smoother. Boy was I wrong.

I much prefer the process for the Mach e. I never reserved the Mach e in advance. I simply ordered one online about 2 weeks before the first customer delivery took place.

It was very similar to the online orders for the Lightning, except you didn't need a reservation, and nobody was prioritized by dealers. I submitted my order, and a couple months later Ford sent me the VIN and build date. I had my Mach e 6 months after placing the order.

How is it I can get a Mach e build and delivered in 6 months, but I can't even get the opportunity to order a Lightning despite have one of the first reservations? It's completely irrational.

I don't think the Mach E had the same universal fanfare / appeal that the Lightning has.... plus a bunch of people REALLY hated the fact that it was called a Mustang despite being a crossover. It was also Ford's first foray into pure electric vehicles -- so I think a lot of people were apprehensive about it -- not necessarily needing to be the first on the block with the new technology. Electric was a lot more niche than it is today, In September 2019 (when the Mach E was announced), Tesla was selling 380k worldwide. In 2021 they sold close to 1mil. From a size standpoint, it basically competed with a Ford Edge, which obviously doesn't sell anywhere near what a F150 does.

This was also before the days of chip shortages and vehicle shortages in general.

Fast forward to today, there's nothing really "wrong" with the Mach E, and even the die-hards are getting used to its naming. So, you take the world's best selling pickup truck (and pickups are expensive on gas), leave it basically the same, but add an electric powertrain and 0-60 in well under 5 seconds, and people are going nuts for it. The name required 0 creativity, and is perfect.

The Lightning was always going to be a hotter ticket than the MME, and chip shortages have certainly not helped that. That's being said, we are right now a month into the order banks opening, and i believe about 6 months away from these vehicles hitting the road in a VERY LIMITED capacity. Ultimately, all 200,000 people aren't going to order this truck, and it would certainly not suprise me if you, being 15th in line at your dealership, are placing an order right around the time these trucks are hitting the road.

It's better for Ford to do these things in "waves" rather than take orders for 2022 models that have no chance of being built for 2022, and then having to get into price protecting, etc.


With respect to buying the Rivian... I'd ask you genuinely... is that because you think the Rivian suits you better? or is it really a situation where you'd rather be in a Lighting, but are out of principle going to buy a Rivian over the reservation process?

 

[jfried]

I've successfully ordered my trim of choice and am really annoyed with how Ford handled the invite process. Ford didn't need to give dealers the option to prioritize customers. It only served to irritate those who were most enthusiastic about the Lightning and created a lot of bad press for Ford when a very small minority of dealers decided to "sell" priority spots.

They really did.

I'm not saying the way in which they did was right, or the quantum -- I disagree with both.... but Ford's model is not a direct to consumer model. They aren't Tesla who have customers lined up for every vehicle they produce. Ford customers expect to be able to call up their salesguy and get a car. The dealers are their conduit for customer relationships.

People get upset when their expectations are not met.

Yes, everyone who ordered on day 1 are probably pretty enthusiastic people towards the truck -- whether that's because they are flippers, they like to be the first on the block with everything, or because they want the latest & greatest f150 to upgrade from their existing f150, or silverado/ram.

However, just because somebody didn't order on Day 1 doesn't mean they're not enthusiastic about the car. They can absolutely be enthusiastic about the car, and have the expectation that their dealer will get them one just like he got them a 2021 Limited Powerboost when they first came out.

When Ford did the GT application process, do you think they looked at the timestamp of the application submission? or do you think they focused on the quality of the application (as long as it was in before the deadline)?

 

[jfried]

3,000 Ford dealerships each with five (or more?) spots completely out of the reservation system would see MOST of the first 15,000 not be Day 1 reservations.

Like I said, I don't at all agree with the quantum or extent that they gave dealers prioritization.... but going strictly by timestamp isn't really right either.

In my view, if they're figuring 15,000 lightnings in MY2022, let half go to dealer-selected customers (using an "allocation" scale) let half go on timestamp to dealer of their choice.

If you've gotta "skip" somebody in line to hit a ZEV state, so be it... chances are you're skipping by seconds with respect to when the reservation was placed.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

It was also Ford's first foray into pure electric vehicles -- so I think a lot of people were apprehensive about it -- not necessarily needing to be the first on the block with the new technology.

Ford still managed to sell about 60k of them worldwide, so I think there was a lot of demand. Europe bought a ton of them. They did the whole reservation process just like the Lightning. The only difference was people weren't allowed to cut in line using prioritization.

This was also before the days of chip shortages and vehicle shortages in general.

The chip shortage was definitely in full swing by this time last year. Ford shut down multiple production lines for this very reason.

It's better for Ford to do these things in "waves" rather than take orders for 2022 models that have no chance of being built for 2022, and then having to get into price protecting, etc.

I kind of see the advantage of waves but in reality I still don't get it. Ford knew how many vehicles they anticipated making before starting the wave process. They could have just as easily opened up orders all at once and stopped once they reached their production cap. Then they could have scheduled the cars for production by reservation timestamp and whatever other factors needed considered. This would have prevented people from missing out on getting a truck this year based on prioritization.

I think the customer orders should have determined dealer allocation numbers, not the other way around.

 

[Deleted member 9341]

I've successfully ordered my trim of choice and am really annoyed with how Ford handled the invite process. Ford didn't need to give dealers the option to prioritize customers. It only served to irritate those who were most enthusiastic about the Lightning and created a lot of bad press for Ford when a very small minority of dealers decided to "sell" priority spots.

Bingo and ditto

 

[jfried]

Ford still managed to sell about 60k of them worldwide, so I think there was a lot of demand. Europe bought a ton of them. They did the whole reservation process just like the Lightning. The only difference was people weren't allowed to cut in line using prioritization.



The chip shortage was definitely in full swing by this time last year. Ford shut down multiple production lines for this very reason.



I kind of see the advantage of waves but in reality I still don't get it. Ford knew how many vehicles they anticipated making before starting the wave process. They could have just as easily opened up orders all at once and stopped once they reached their production cap. Then they could have scheduled the cars for production by reservation timestamp and whatever other factors needed considered. For the record... I do not think dealer prioritization should have been one of those factors.

I think there is a "scale of demand" element that is vastly different for the MME than the Lightning. I'm fairly certian that one can walk onto a lot today and buy a MME at MSRP. Can't do that with a Bronco.

Personally, I don't actually see a problem with "waves". They're obviously going with a new process, they don't really need every ford dealer's phone ringing off the hook to get orders accepted. Production isn't beginning today and isn't beginning in the next couple of weeks. They're going to "lump together" orders from wave 1, wave 2, etc.; based on however it makes most sense for them to build 'em. The waves are simply there to prevent anyone from getting "overwhelmed" in the process.

I get that prioritization is frustrating if you don't didn't have a relationship with a dealer; but it is important that Ford buyers are accustomed to working with dealers, and dealers, with the relationships they build with customers, are integral to getting the rest of the ford lineup sold.


With respect to buying the Rivian... I'd ask you genuinely... is that because you think the Rivian suits you better? or is it really a situation where you'd rather be in a Lighting, but are out of principle going to buy a Rivian over the reservation process?

 

[Deleted member 9341]

I imagine quite a few... myself included. I went from leaning heavily toward the Lightning to being almost certain I'm going to buy a Rivian instead. The soonest I'll receive either one is 2023... And I reserved a Lightning very early 5/19.

Despite having a very early timestamp, I ended up around 15th in line after prioritization. My dealer was only allocated 1 Lightning for 2022. My dealer is not small either. Not big... But also not small.

I believe there are way more people who share my predicament and opinions on the matter than you think.

I'm so disappointed with how Ford handled the reservation and order process that I likely will not consider buying another Ford for quite some time.

At first I thought the reservation system would be fair and actually make the process smoother. Boy was I wrong.

I much prefer the process for the Mach e. I never reserved the Mach e in advance. I simply ordered one online about 2 weeks before the first customer delivery took place.

It was very similar to the online orders for the Lightning, except nobody was prioritized by dealers. I submitted my order, and a couple months later Ford sent me the VIN and build date. I had my Mach e 6 months after placing the order.

How was I able to get a Mach e ordered, built, and delivered in 6 months, but I can't even get the opportunity to order a Lightning despite having one of the first reservations? It's completely irrational.

I’d say a “few” will be many thousands. Easily

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