SAE is standardizing the NACS connector – making it less dependent on Tesla

[TheWoo]

Well, Tesla currently does not have 800V superchargers. EA has a nationwide network of the team. Those 800V architecture cars are going to charge quite slowly on the Superchargers. To make things worse, on the Porsche Taycan, most cars support only 50kW 400V charging with 150kW 400V being an add-on cost at the time of configuration. Given that Tesla still has a lot of V2 chargers out there and seems slow to upgrade, I wouldn’t expect them to catch up to EA with new 800V superchargers anytime soon.

Those non-Tesla options are already substantially cheaper than Tesla’s own network. I’ve run into a bunch of Tesla owners with CCS adapters taking advantage of much cheaper DC fast charging. Given that I am already expecting Tesla to charge non-Teslas a premium to use their chargers, we should all appreciate having our options open. At pricing for Tesla owners, Supercharger prices match or exceed gas prices in parts of the country.

I road tripped 400 miles just yesterday using EA chargers. I regularly do 500 mile road trip days in my Lightning. In less than three months, I have racked up 8k miles. The new 350kw shared chargers that EA is installing across the country are great. While it’s nice to have Superchargers access to expand our options, I am quite thankful that we won’t be limited to them.

Personally, I will use the Superchargers only if I have no other viable options, because Elon Musk is a garbage person and a charlatan. I don’t like the idea of giving him any of my money outside of it being a necessity to get from point A to point B..

One of the biggest advantages of opening the Supercharger network to the rest of us is the redundancy it offers. Like you, I anticipate I'll still mostly use other options (more due to the reality of the challenge of parking at a SC location given the charge port location than any particular like/dislike of Musk), but knowing that I can stretch it to an EA location on a road trip without worrying as much that if it's down because I can hit a nearby SC location is huge for many locations. I'm often stopping on my road trips before I'd like because I don't like showing up at a location without enough charge to get to another if something goes wrong. Heading west from here, that could easily happen...but the SC network creates significant redundancy that will reduce that fear a lot.

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[Zprime29]

How many times has tesla lowered car prices to maintain their edge? If you think they won't lower SC pricing once everyone is using NACS then you don't understand supply and demand.

 

[RedLightning86]

When companies have to compete on reliability, I think they will miraculously develop the ability to charge at stated speed in hot or cold weather. Of course, car manufacturers need to be able to keep the battery cooling running adequately also.

 

[Zap]

I've yet to hear that Tesla will be part of this process or adhere to the new standards.

I'm hoping SAE doesn't try to fix something that's not broken. Tesla does so well in selling cars due, IMO, in large part to their charging network. It works, it is everywhere, it's reliably operational, and it is absolutely plug and play. I hope a committee doesn't decide they need an app, or a screen on the charger with a menu to navigate, or require a card insertion/tap, or be required to lengthen the cords, or lower availability standards, or whatever they decide needs fixing. Tesla didn't need to do this; I am so glad they did, but they say no good deed goes unpunished.

 

[Ventorum94]

I agree with that, but these companies have been investing a lot of money building charging networks that most will agree are not as reliable as Tesla's.

The trouble is they're building a long-term business that will not be growing as fast as they expected. Even if there will still be a lot of them on the road in 5 years, none of the newer Ford, GM or Rivian buyers will want to use their network, and even existing CCS owners like us will still want to use the SuperCharger network with the adapters.

Things are happening fast. I'm guessing there will be other companies adopting the NACS in the next year or so, and as each one makes that move, the future outlook for companies like Electrify America will shrink, unless they too start providing NACS connectors.

That's where things get interesting, because given a choice between an NACS based SuperCharger or another charging company using NACS connectors, they'll need to compete on price and reliability.

It’s not CCS that people are motivated to dump: it’s unreliable dispensers, and <150kW DCFC dispensers (including those de-rated but otherwise designed capable). NACS is only a means to an end: presumably widespread access to fast (150kW+) and reliable DCFC on the Tesla network.

 

[IdeaOfTheDayCom]

It’s not CCS that people are motivated to dump: it’s unreliable dispensers, and <150kW DCFC dispensers (including those de-rated but otherwise designed capable). NACS is only a means to an end: presumably widespread access to fast (150kW+) and reliable DCFC on the Tesla network.

I agree. The key here is that SuperChargers have proven to be very reliable and more importantly, plentiful.

I live in Staten Island, and there are only 3 commercially available locations with fast chargers. In one lot there are at least 12 SuperChargers and zero CCS. The second lot has 14 SuperChargers, and only ONE CCS charger. The third location has 2 that were placed in a beach parking lot by NYC Parks Department to charge their own fleet, but they've recently allowed the public to use it.

The bottom line here is that I see SuperChargers everywhere I travel, and the CCS chargers are in remote locations nowhere near the highways in my area.

I contacted some of the larger charging companies nearly 2 years ago to suggest they consider placing a charger on the Island so that residents wouldn't need to pay $17 to cross a bridge to use one out of state. They said they have no plans and in that time the number of Tesla chargers doubled and only one single CCS charger dispenser was installed (and it has not yet been put online). Chances are I'll be using the NACS with an adapter long before I see any progress building new CCS chargers.

 

[hturnerfamily]

With 26,000 + miles, and a lot of that while towing our camper, I've seen a lot of charging options in Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Alabama, and Florida: Comparing my experience with Nissan Leafs, a Chevy Bolt, my LIGHTNING, and even cross-country with a Tesla Model 3:

Tesla's NACS is currently the big leader in: Locations, Numbers at each location, and Ease* and Reliability
(*Ease: meaning you just plug-n-charge, and the cable is light and the plug is more manageable)

Where they are not as great? NACS only(for now), Speed, lack of Rural Locations, and having to activate/pay only with their app. Advice: provide more LOCATIONS, with fewer units at each, versus 10-12 units at a single location.


When do others shine?
EA, when they actually WORK - and at the posted Max SPEEDS they advertise, which, in itself, is confusing: is HYPER faster, or not, than 'ULTRA-FAST'??
Advice: provide more Locations, with fewer units at each, and MAINTAIN the units, if you are going to be in the business of charging. Walmarts are great locations, IF you don't put the units in the most heavily trafficked lanes - move them to the far OUTSIDE areras and provide LOTS of room to maneuver at each, with 'pull thrus'.
CP, when they work - probably the most 'Rural' locations of all DC Fast Chargers, but Maximum speeds are 'Slow', comparatively. I do see that some EMCs(Rural Utility Electricity Providers) are hosting these either AT their primary office locations, or hosting units in their regions...nice. Makes sense, too.
Advice: enhance SPEEDS - advertising 125kw 'shared' does nothing for the public, when it actually means no more than 65kw per 'side' of the unit. Put more locations in local Walmarts, or large parking lots, with LOTS of room at 'pull thrus' on each side.
EVgo, when you can find their relatively few locations - at least have FAST options(I'm not sure I understand the 'naming' nomenclature, but, oh well....)

I've run into a few others: Autel(2 out of 5 stars: Hard to understand how to activate, expensive charging, very few locations, SLOW), and Shell 'Recharge': Few locations(I've also never used one), not sure about the reliability when you do actually find one, probably not situated very well for larger vehicles, towing, etc., and probably limited to 50kwh, etc.


TWO notes to add to potential Charge locations:
Sometimes those who plan these 'Locations' for charging seem oblivious to the situation that comes with 'charging'... meaning that when you stop to charge, you are often not just in-n-out quickly, you are there for 30 minutes or more, or even an hour - you need a RESTROOM. It's not rocket science, it's human science. I've seen a row of 12 Teslas packed at a Supercharger location, next to a SONIC, where the only restroom is a single outside door where you must get a 'key' to open. It's not only awkward to see a line of folks waiting, but also standing out in the blazing sun...
I've seen EVgo's with otherwise good charging units in a seemingly rather vacant and undesireable location, with no restroom option anywhere nearby. I wouldn't want my 21 year young daughter to have to park there, even if she wasn't alone.
There is a relatively new CP single unit at an EMC in a Rural area, with no restroom option without crossing a very wide and trafficked roadway...

Most folks who gas up at convenience stores and gas stations don't run into these problems, at least quite as much - they might not 'like' the restroom there, but at least they usually have the option.

Secondly, DC Fast Charger PLACEMENT: This is where all the 'new' EVs are struggling, sometimes with the 'space', or lack of, to park their larger vehicles, or the lack of ability to SITUATE their 'rig' into the area to reach the charge cable. My LIGHTNING is sometimes tough enough, as many locations tend to have taken the 'all EVs are tiny small compact vehicles' parking space approach, but add to that even a short small camper, and you get the idea: EA - if you are going to provide 'slanted' units, with options to plug from either side, and yet you BRICK the ability for any vehicle to 'pull thru', you really are just fooling yourself, or rather, us owners. Don't Put Concrete Barriers or Signs in the Pull Thru lanes!!!!! Give us the option, jeeez.

 

[Solar_EE]

Location might be a huge differentiator as well. I know I personally would go to a slightly slower and/or more expensive fast charger on a road trip if it was at a restaurant I wanted to stop at for lunch or dinner.

I foresee lots of "partnerships" between locations and charging popping up over time, more than we have now.

I agree with you- I used the EVGo in Norfolk that is 85 feet from Panera. I could see my truck from the restaurant. There was a Tesla Model Y charging there because he had the adapter and the price per kWh was lower than the Supercharger network. My SR took about 40 minutes to charge from 50 to 90% but that was no issue as I was sitting in the air conditioned restaurant eating. Checked the Ford Pass AP and left the restaurant as the truck neared 90% so I would not block the charger.

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