Uh, Oh... looks like the EV tax credits are hitting an obstacle

[Pioneer74]

Why not give a free EV to everybody, saying saying ?‍

Nothing is free. Everything "free" the government is giving out right now is being paid for by our grandchildren.

Sponsored

 

[AgieF150]

Nothing is free. Everything "free" the government is giving out right now is being paid for by our grandchildren.

Soon will be by great-grandchildren.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Why not give a free EV to everybody.

Can give good reasons for not using the exaggerate to absurdity ploy above. First and foremost, it never works.

1. Problem: Science shows fossil fuel emissions have caused catastrophic global warming. Science says we can mitigate the disaster by eliminating oil and gas use and emissions.
2. Cars and trucks are responsible for about 30% of emissions and run on oil and gas.
3. Going zero emissions on cars and trucks cuts emissions.
4. We need to speed up adoption of zero emissions vehicles for good of nation.
5. Subsidies to cover cost difference in EV/ICE work to get people to switch to EV's.

Due to 4, we need to increase 5.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Everything "free" the government is giving out right now is being paid for by our grandchildren.

Well the $17T in debt is from unfunded US oil wars. SS/Medicare (off budget) have run a surplus for the last 40 years and still have $1T in bank. Discretionary budget, where the US debt comes from, is 70% military. Economic balance would require increase in oil taxes to pay for the $17T in debt securing oil has incurred.

 

[Pioneer74]

Can give good reasons for not using the exaggerate to absurdity ploy above. First and foremost, it never works.

1. Problem: Science shows fossil fuel emissions have caused catastrophic global warming. Science says we can mitigate the disaster by eliminating oil and gas use and emissions.
2. Cars and trucks are responsible for about 30% of emissions and run on oil and gas.
3. Going zero emissions on cars and trucks cuts emissions.
4. We need to speed up adoption of zero emissions vehicles for good of nation.
5. Subsidies to cover cost difference in EV/ICE work to get people to switch to EV's.

Due to 4, we need to increase 5.

#5 doesn't do any good if the person using them sells #4 to somebody else so they can keep driving it.

Not to mention the fact that Tesla is selling every car they can make right now with no subsidy.

 

[F150ROD]

Can give good reasons for not using the exaggerate to absurdity ploy above. First and foremost, it never works.

1. Problem: Science shows fossil fuel emissions have caused catastrophic global warming. Science says we can mitigate the disaster by eliminating oil and gas use and emissions.
2. Cars and trucks are responsible for about 30% of emissions and run on oil and gas.
3. Going zero emissions on cars and trucks cuts emissions.
4. We need to speed up adoption of zero emissions vehicles for good of nation.
5. Subsidies to cover cost difference in EV/ICE work to get people to switch to EV's.

Due to 4, we need to increase 5.

If only it worked out the way you are looking at it. Have you noticed the prices of Teslas keep going up and there is a reason Ford hasn't put the configurator up on Ford.com. Your #5 will never happen. If the Government gives out $12.5k in subsidies guess what manufacturers are going to do?

Your #4 only works if the rest of the world is on board, sure we can do our part and not be part of the problem, but we alone will not solve global warming......however other nations would love to see us continually go into debt passing that debt on to generation after generation.

While he suggestion about giving an EV to everyone is impossible.....it is possible to take that $12.5K and give everyone a base Nissan Versa

 

[EaglesPDX]

Not to mention the fact that Tesla is selling every car they can make right now with no subsidy.

But AFTER receiveing $2.23B in EV tax credits. Take that and all the other Federal, state and local tax credits away and Tesla never gets off the ground.

And US EV adoption is TOO SLOW to fix the global warming issue. In order to speed up EV adoption and reduce emissions we need to increase the subsidy.

Forget the economic ideology and focus on the science problem and solutions.

 

[EaglesPDX]

If the Government gives out $12.5k in subsidies guess what manufacturers are going to do?

It's what the consumers who get the subsidy do that is important, buy EV's.

With $17T in oil war debt and 300M ICE vehicles, each ICE vehicle was subsidized by taxpayers by $56,000 and oil supplies are as insecure today as when we first invaded Middle East in '88 and costing the US $400B per year in trade debt.

Investing $20K in EV's is 1/3 the cost and fixes the economic, national security and environmental threats of oil use that the $56k ICE subsidy failed to fix.

 

[Pioneer74]

It's what the consumers who get the subsidy do that is important, buy EV's.

With $17T in oil war debt and 300M ICE vehicles, each ICE vehicle was subsidized by taxpayers by $56,000 and oil supplies are as insecure today as when we first invaded Middle East in '88 and costing the US $400B per year in trade debt.

Investing $20K in EV's is 1/3 the cost and fixes the economic, national security and environmental threats of oil use that the $56k ICE subsidy failed to fix.

 

[F150ROD]

It's what the consumers who get the subsidy do that is important, buy EV's.

With $17T in oil war debt and 300M ICE vehicles, each ICE vehicle was subsidized by taxpayers by $56,000 and oil supplies are as insecure today as when we first invaded Middle East in '88 and costing the US $400B per year in trade debt.

Investing $20K in EV's is 1/3 the cost and fixes the economic, national security and environmental threats of oil use that the $56k ICE subsidy failed to fix.

Please explain how it fixes national security........I want to hear this.....

 

[EaglesPDX]

Please explain how it fixes national security........I want to hear this.....

See "Iraq War 1", see "Iraq War II", see "911", see "war on terrorism", see "Afghan War" see "Oil Embargo 1973", see "Oil Embargo 1979", see "Suez crisis". Oil use for US has generated oil wars, oil terrorism, $17T in oil war debt. There is no analysis of US oil imports that does not begin and end with the threat to US national security. Follow the Pentagon spending to see the priority US military puts on oil as a US national security concern easily 50% of US military spending is related to securing oil supplies.

One can legitimately call the loss of watershed, floods, hurricanes, loss of farmland, coastline, bio-diversity, increase in pandemics and other effects of fossil fuel use as threats to US national security. The future issues with fossil fuel caused global warming, displacement of populations, famines, economic collapses all create national security issues for the US.

 

[EaglesPDX]

You missed one. Here' Hari Seldon explains that the science predicts collapse while the gov't bans science facts...very topical.

 

[F150ROD]

See "Iraq War 1", see "Iraq War II", see "911", see "war on terrorism", see "Afghan War" see "Oil Embargo 1973", see "Oil Embargo 1979", see "Suez crisis". Oil use for US has generated oil wars, oil terrorism, $17T in oil war debt. There is no analysis of US oil imports that does not begin and end with the threat to US national security. Follow the Pentagon spending to see the priority US military puts on oil as a US national security concern easily 50% of US military spending is related to securing oil supplies.

One can legitimately call the loss of watershed, floods, hurricanes, loss of farmland, coastline, bio-diversity, increase in pandemics and other effects of fossil fuel use as threats to US national security. The future issues with fossil fuel caused global warming, displacement of populations, famines, economic collapses all create national security issues for the US.

EV's are NOT going to stop us from going to war in the Middle East for OIL

What world are you living in where you think that less spending on the military is going to keep us safer? Do you think our enemies are all of a sudden just going to drop their military budget and sing kumbaya with us? Are they going to say "Oh look the U.S. has adopted EV's and Solar Power, we can now stop trying to put our foot print around the world"

That's not how the world works, we were dormant before WWII and got our asses handed to us at Pearl Harbor...... never again, no matter how much people cry about endless wars. We have to keep our presence going beyond our shore whether you think it's about OIL or not.......

BTW, looking at our gas prices our "OIL WARS" have done us well

 

[PungoteagueDave]

The point of EV tax credits is to encourage EV adoption. Every EV being built and made available to the consumer is being purchased, some with credits, some without. There is a multi-year waiting list. Every EV that any manufacturer produced over the next few years, with or without credits, will be purchased by consumers. Ergo, credits will have zero influence on EV adoption during the period that the credits will apply. Every Lightning made will be sold, full stop. Do NOT waste taxpayer dollars incentivizing a thing that will happen either way. Tesla is proving every day that tax credits are not required to sell EV's. There is a multi-month wait for every Tesla model, and for the most expensive it is many months. Tesla jumped the industry and showed the way - EV's are now a highly desired segment and even though many WISH to have a credit, no one who can afford and EV NEEDS a credit. How about let's stop borrowing for current consumption from future generations and begin living within our means?

Go Joe!

 

[AgieF150]

The point of EV tax credits is to encourage EV adoption. Every EV being built and made available to the consumer is being purchased, some with credits, some without. There is a multi-year waiting list. Every EV that any manufacturer produced over the next few years, with or without credits, will be purchased by consumers. Ergo, credits will have zero influence on EV adoption during the period that the credits will apply. Every Lightning made will be sold, full stop. Do NOT waste taxpayer dollars incentivizing a thing that will happen either way. Tesla is proving every day that tax credits are not required to sell EV's. There is a multi-month wait for every Tesla model, and for the most expensive it is many months. Tesla jumped the industry and showed the way - EV's are now a highly desired segment and even though many WISH to have a credit, no one who can afford and EV NEEDS a credit. How about let's stop borrowing for current consumption from future generations and begin living within our means?

Go Joe!

This is what everybody is saying, no need to waste taxpayers money until unless you want that money boomeranged to you (politician)

Sponsored