White House releases plan to build nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers

[EaglesPDX]

There's no way apartment dwellers and folks who park their cars on public streets should have to depend on DCFC stations, it's not practical at all.

I did it for two years. Worked fine. Key is lots of charging choices near work, home and shopping. It tend to shop Freds as they have Tesla and EA chargers. Car is done charging before I'm done shopping.

Sponsored

 

[TF1000]

Doubtful. Most single drivers I see are on their computers. I have been known to take a power nap or two.

Families, the kids tend to go screaming toward whatever is open (Freds, Freds, Mall, Mall are the local choices). You're lucky you can herd them back to the car before it's done charging.

Plus you can eat, piss, and have sex while you charge!

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Plus you can eat, piss, and have sex while you charge!

Though hopefully not all at the same time. Not that it’s any of my business!

 

[Mr. Flibble]

I did it for two years. Worked fine. Key is lots of charging choices near work, home and shopping. It tend to shop Freds as they have Tesla and EA chargers. Car is done charging before I'm done shopping.

You can do it, as you have noted, but most people wouldn’t. Everyone has different use cases.

In my case, I was charging for my first year of ownership with a standard 120v 15 Amp plug, and it worked great. My commute to work was about 3 miles one way. Then they put some free L2 chargers near my office, and for a long time, I played the game of seeing just how long I could go without charging at home at all - just while I was at the office. I managed a 3 month stretch at best.

I finally got a 25 Amp L2 charger installed once I got a new job with a longer commute, but that job (before the change to WFH) also had free L2 charging at the office.

I suspect most people will want L2 charging where they park, and as EV’s become more common, the market for that solution will present itself. After all, if you can make extra money where a parking space exists, I am sure people will.

 

[Sklith]

I did it for two years. Worked fine. Key is lots of charging choices near work, home and shopping. It tend to shop Freds as they have Tesla and EA chargers. Car is done charging before I'm done shopping.

Yeah, that'll work for those who don't have charging options at home. As long as they're able to do something else like work or shop. But waiting for your car to charge sucks, and gets old fast. I don't see mass adoption if 40% of all owners have to do that.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Facts say otherwise with Pepsi taking delivery of their 100 order in '23 when I'll get my F150.

Or is it "we don't have F150 Lightnings" if we applied your "logic" to the EV semis rolling out.

Not gonna happen. Not a real thing in the real world. The semi trucks are still concepts without ANY infrastructure to get on the road. That's literally none. And unlike lightweight EV's, they depend entirely on charging enroute - which does not exist, full stop. There is a ton of existing infrastructure for normal lightweight (car and SUV) EVs. The lightning is not a concept. Every semi EV is a concept. Interesting concepts, with promise, but literally not feasible in the real world. Said as a longtime early EV adopter with many miles under my belt.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

A

You can do it, as you have noted, but most people wouldn’t. Everyone has different use cases.

In my case, I was charging for my first year of ownership with a standard 120v 15 Amp plug, and it worked great. My commute to work was about 3 miles one way. Then they put some free L2 chargers near my office, and for a long time, I played the game of seeing just how long I could go without charging at home at all - just while I was at the office. I managed a 3 month stretch at best.

I finally got a 25 Amp L2 charger installed once I got a new job with a longer commute, but that job (before the change to WFH) also had free L2 charging at the office.

I suspect most people will want L2 charging where they park, and as EV’s become more common, the market for that solution will present itself. After all, if you can make extra money where a parking space exists, I am sure people will.

Agreed, owning an EV without also owning charging equals a decision to have the car own you rather than the other way around. It no longer serves a purpose, it becomes the purpose. Keep it if that's the deal. I counsel my un-homed friends, my own kids, and my students to avoid owning/driving EVs entirely until they have a place to charge that they fully control. Just like their cell phone. Going somewhere to charge means ceding life time, which is all we really own of value. Only so many heartbeats in the ticker - giving any to wasted time/effort or drudgery is a precious, no priceless, asset that can never be recovered. I have sat at many charging stations, campgrounds, welding shops, and marinas on road trips before there were Superchargers. Then it was an adventure. Never. Again.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

There's no way apartment dwellers and folks who park their cars on public streets should have to depend on DCFC stations, it's not practical at all. EVs need to be more convenient to use than ICE vehicles, and occasionally driving to a fast charger for up to an hour is not going to work. Electric companies will need to make an investment in infrastructure to all these new potential customers as they'll replace the oil companies of today.

correct - and building owners will be forced to make EV charging a priority too. Just a decade ago it would have be almost ludicracy to ask an apartment complex if they had a gym or pool. Today it would be insane to build one without a gym, an Amazon box drop-off facility, etc. EV charging is becoming the same - and apartment owners are literally scrambling to add them in order to be competitive. If you have a hotel or apartment complex today -it IS on your list to get done in the next three to five years for existing projects - and every new project will have them. You will have to offer them in order to be competitive. It would be like trying to rent an apartment where there is no cable TV. And folks, there was no cable TV or internet in the 1970's. Somehow every apartment has both today. This won't be so hard.

 

[Sklith]

I've done a couple of 5000+ mile road trips with my family in our Teslas, and I made sure each of the hotels I booked had 6kW charging capability at the least. Thank god for Plugshare! Resuming our trip each morning with a full battery is a game changer, and demand for this will only increase as time goes on.

 

[EaglesPDX]

You can do it, as you have noted, but most people wouldn’t.

I'd guess a LOT do though. In our neighborhood, upscale apts and condos, there are a LOT of Tesla's parked on the street and only some of the buildings, all fairly new, have chargers most have none and none has enough parking if every dwelling had a car.

But the issue was how many fast DC chargers would we need and I still think the Tesla model works as an early guide. Basically 100 EV's for every 1 fast DC charger works for Tesla.

 

[vandy1981]

Plus you can eat, piss, and have sex while you charge!

Also happens while pumping gas, mostly at truck stops.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Agreed, owning an EV without also owning charging equals a decision to have the car own you rather than the other way around.

Chuckle...facts are otherwise. Interesting that those they have done it see no problem, those who haven't can't figure it out.

 

[EaglesPDX]

But waiting for your car to charge sucks, and gets old fast.

Vanilla/Chocolate. Didn't mind at all for two years. If I moved again and didn't have charging, I know it would be easy to live off the chargers at the supermarket, Tesla and EA.

It's convenient to have home charging but not essential and certainly not a show stopper.

To this topic, if you use the Tesla 100:1 car/charger ratio, the 500,000 new chargers (if fast DC) would be 20% of what US would need based on 250M cars.

 

[Sklith]

Vanilla/Chocolate. Didn't mind at all for two years. If I moved again and didn't have charging, I know it would be easy to live off the chargers at the supermarket, Tesla and EA.

You're definitely an outlier to the norm. Most people wouldn't switch to an EV if it means they have to wait longer to charge their car on average than it is to refuel their ICE vehicles. One of the major reasons why I switched to EVs is to avoid the long lines at the Costo pumps.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

I'd guess a LOT do though. In our neighborhood, upscale apts and condos, there are a LOT of Tesla's parked on the street and only some of the buildings, all fairly new, have chargers most have none and none has enough parking if every dwelling had a car.

But the issue was how many fast DC chargers would we need and I still think the Tesla model works as an early guide. Basically 100 EV's for every 1 fast DC charger works for Tesla.

Most people in the US drive an average of 29.5 miles per day; which is well within the realm of an L2 charger, or even an L1. There are obviously exceptions to this. I have found that a lot of people that own Tesla’s without home charging own them for the Cachet of having a nice car, and EV bragging rights. Though, each of them in turn has installed their own L2 after a short while.

As for DCFC, I don’t think it is a “requirement”. If people average 29.5 miles per day, L2 is more than adequate for that task. DCFC is the exception, not the rule. I have only used it twice in the entire time I have owned my car, and only one time was it something I really needed, the first time was just pure curiosity.

Tesla put their chargers everywhere because they are burning stockholder capital for expansion. If you buy a Tesla, you can drive nearly anywhere with your car because shareholders have paid for this. But; its also a smart move. This keeps their brand up, and people who don’t know much about EV’s want to go to a Tesla because of the charging network; because they are afraid of the possibility that they will run out of battery, which is unlikely.

I have never seen a Tesla charging point that was full. At most, there are 2 cars there.

To be sure, there are large swaths of the country that are barren for chargers, the Dakota’s and surrounding area are pretty bad for that.

But you know what? You know those areas that have almost no L2 or L3 chargers? They have the highest pickup truck purchases. They are also the same areas where people are most interested in the Ford Lightning: https://insideevs.com/news/552216/f150-lightning-most-popular-twitter/

I think DCFC will start popping up in more areas - simply because of supply and demand. If there is a way to make money off of it, people will do it. And large scale adoption of EVs will make that more and more likely.

But most people who start out will charge at home or work, and that will drive adoption of DCFC over time.

Sponsored