Subs won't fix your B&O "Unleashed" F150

[RogueCow]

I will preface this with the fact that I have built full SQ systems on my last three vehicles,
from Deck to amp to drivers, everything was ripped out and upgraded for sound quality and volume.
I play and listen to metalcore, djent, generally heavy music, and I like things LOUD in my car.

I have my audiophile side, where I enjoy sitting in a listening room, appreciating the subtleties of a track,
but that side of me is not welcome in my vehicle; I want to feel my music.

So perhaps my expectations were a little high going into the "unleashed" system...

When my truck was delivered, I, along with most other owners of this system it seems, was incredibly disappointed.
Sound quality was nice, provided you listen at conversation levels. Past that, there is noticeable distortion in
the tweeters, especially the headrest ones.

I am a powertrain engineer for Ford, so the second my truck was delivered and I found this, I hopped into 5 other
F150 prototypes with the unleashed system, hoping my system was an outlier with hardware issues, but I found that they perform exactly
the same as my system at the same volumes with the same songs, leaving me utterly furious I spent money on the unleashed "upgrade"

So, into the aftermarket I go.

I quickly found that there is no cheap way to add amplifiers or EQ to the system because of course everything needs
to be digital and proprietary. The only audio interface I believe is available to us is the NAVtv audio interface, coming in
at $720 US (as of Jan'22 at least).

Considering I only have this truck on a 3 year lease, I don't particularly want to drop $3k+ upgrading the audio,
which is why I spent the extra $800 for the unleashed system in the first place...

I decided to go the cheap route and implement a kicker Key system, adding only subwoofers to the existing system. Maybe that will be enough *fingers crossed*

The addition is as follows:
- Kicker key 500.1 Amplifier
- Two JL audio 10tw3 subwoofers
- Underseat subwoofer box from supercrewsound.com

All in, I spent around $1300 Canadian for everything, hoping it would be good enough...

"short" answer, NO

What I have now is a truck that highlights how much leashing Ford is doing in the background.

The first time through a song, the subs hit hard, the song as a whole is relatively loud, and if that is how
everything remained, I would probably be happy with this small upgrade.

What happens over the space of a minute or so is that the truck decides this is too loud for my delicate ears,
and drops the overall volume. This does two things:
- Throws off the mix of the subs; if they were initially mixed well, they are now too quiet. If they were initially mixed loud, they are now mixed well)
- Makes the overall system seem super volume limited, causing me to crank to 30, where distortion exists on all the tweeters *rage*

For a while I thought this was just my ears acclimating to the sound or something (desperately trying to justify the $800),
but once I got the subs in, I could do the Jurassic park test with a cup of water, and for a given sub hit on a song it definitely
ripples much less the second time around.

From this point, I will probably just leave it as is, being slightly miserable everytime I turn the volume to 30, only to be let down with the overall
volume, hoping my next vehicle has a better system, or is easier to upgrade. Or maybeI get a bonus from work and drop all the money into a new
system, who knows.

My $0.02 "Unleashed" sucks, subs alone doesn't fix that.

Sponsored

 

[Blueshound]

Thanks! Good to know I am not missing anything with the basic (non-b&o) sound system and saved a few bucks.

 

[JeffC57]

I will preface this with the fact that I have built full SQ systems on my last three vehicles,
from Deck to amp to drivers, everything was ripped out and upgraded for sound quality and volume.
I play and listen to metalcore, djent, generally heavy music, and I like things LOUD in my car.

I have my audiophile side, where I enjoy sitting in a listening room, appreciating the subtleties of a track,
but that side of me is not welcome in my vehicle; I want to feel my music.

So perhaps my expectations were a little high going into the "unleashed" system...

When my truck was delivered, I, along with most other owners of this system it seems, was incredibly disappointed.
Sound quality was nice, provided you listen at conversation levels. Past that, there is noticeable distortion in
the tweeters, especially the headrest ones.

I am a powertrain engineer for Ford, so the second my truck was delivered and I found this, I hopped into 5 other
F150 prototypes with the unleashed system, hoping my system was an outlier with hardware issues, but I found that they perform exactly
the same as my system at the same volumes with the same songs, leaving me utterly furious I spent money on the unleashed "upgrade"

So, into the aftermarket I go.

I quickly found that there is no cheap way to add amplifiers or EQ to the system because of course everything needs
to be digital and proprietary. The only audio interface I believe is available to us is the NAVtv audio interface, coming in
at $720 US (as of Jan'22 at least).

Considering I only have this truck on a 3 year lease, I don't particularly want to drop $3k+ upgrading the audio,
which is why I spent the extra $800 for the unleashed system in the first place...

I decided to go the cheap route and implement a kicker Key system, adding only subwoofers to the existing system. Maybe that will be enough *fingers crossed*

The addition is as follows:
- Kicker key 500.1 Amplifier
- Two JL audio 10tw3 subwoofers
- Underseat subwoofer box from supercrewsound.com

All in, I spent around $1300 Canadian for everything, hoping it would be good enough...

"short" answer, NO

What I have now is a truck that highlights how much leashing Ford is doing in the background.

The first time through a song, the subs hit hard, the song as a whole is relatively loud, and if that is how
everything remained, I would probably be happy with this small upgrade.

What happens over the space of a minute or so is that the truck decides this is too loud for my delicate ears,
and drops the overall volume. This does two things:
- Throws off the mix of the subs; if they were initially mixed well, they are now too quiet. If they were initially mixed loud, they are now mixed well)
- Makes the overall system seem super volume limited, causing me to crank to 30, where distortion exists on all the tweeters *rage*

For a while I thought this was just my ears acclimating to the sound or something (desperately trying to justify the $800),
but once I got the subs in, I could do the Jurassic park test with a cup of water, and for a given sub hit on a song it definitely
ripples much less the second time around.

From this point, I will probably just leave it as is, being slightly miserable everytime I turn the volume to 30, only to be let down with the overall
volume, hoping my next vehicle has a better system, or is easier to upgrade. Or maybeI get a bonus from work and drop all the money into a new
system, who knows.

My $0.02 "Unleashed" sucks, subs alone doesn't fix that.

Thanks for sharing. I considered trying an aftermarket subwoofer to replace the factory one supplied with the B&O unleashed system. I wondered how/if it would play nice with the proprietary DSP system supplied by Ford. Based on your experience, I'm going to leave my system alone and save the fine sounds for the ones that point at my living room couch.

 

[RogueCow]

Thanks for sharing. I considered trying an aftermarket subwoofer to replace the factory one supplied with the B&O unleashed system. I wondered how/if it would play nice with the proprietary DSP system supplied by Ford. Based on your experience, I'm going to leave my system alone and save the fine sounds for the ones that point at my living room couch.

I will say that the Kicker KEY amp was really really easy to install and calibrate. It has a relatively high threshold for high level inputs, so I just snipped the wires going into the factory subwoofer and plugged them into the kicker amp. That provides both signal and turn on voltage to the amp.

I imagine any amplifier can be installed to work that way with the proper inline signal converter, I just went with the Kicker Key as it was only $200, would drive my subs perfectly, and is absolutely TINY.

If these were normal times and I was spending 2.5 hours a day driving to and from work, maybe I would invest $5000 or so into a set of focal 165KX3 for the fronts and a navtv to do a full system replacement, but by the time I get back to having to work in the office, I will only have my truck another year or two and it just wouldn't be worth the time and money...

 

[Zyvin]

I will preface this with the fact that I have built full SQ systems on my last three vehicles,
from Deck to amp to drivers, everything was ripped out and upgraded for sound quality and volume.
I play and listen to metalcore, djent, generally heavy music, and I like things LOUD in my car.

I have my audiophile side, where I enjoy sitting in a listening room, appreciating the subtleties of a track,
but that side of me is not welcome in my vehicle; I want to feel my music.

So perhaps my expectations were a little high going into the "unleashed" system...

When my truck was delivered, I, along with most other owners of this system it seems, was incredibly disappointed.
Sound quality was nice, provided you listen at conversation levels. Past that, there is noticeable distortion in
the tweeters, especially the headrest ones.

I am a powertrain engineer for Ford, so the second my truck was delivered and I found this, I hopped into 5 other
F150 prototypes with the unleashed system, hoping my system was an outlier with hardware issues, but I found that they perform exactly
the same as my system at the same volumes with the same songs, leaving me utterly furious I spent money on the unleashed "upgrade"

So, into the aftermarket I go.

I quickly found that there is no cheap way to add amplifiers or EQ to the system because of course everything needs
to be digital and proprietary. The only audio interface I believe is available to us is the NAVtv audio interface, coming in
at $720 US (as of Jan'22 at least).

Considering I only have this truck on a 3 year lease, I don't particularly want to drop $3k+ upgrading the audio,
which is why I spent the extra $800 for the unleashed system in the first place...

I decided to go the cheap route and implement a kicker Key system, adding only subwoofers to the existing system. Maybe that will be enough *fingers crossed*

The addition is as follows:
- Kicker key 500.1 Amplifier
- Two JL audio 10tw3 subwoofers
- Underseat subwoofer box from supercrewsound.com

All in, I spent around $1300 Canadian for everything, hoping it would be good enough...

"short" answer, NO

What I have now is a truck that highlights how much leashing Ford is doing in the background.

The first time through a song, the subs hit hard, the song as a whole is relatively loud, and if that is how
everything remained, I would probably be happy with this small upgrade.

What happens over the space of a minute or so is that the truck decides this is too loud for my delicate ears,
and drops the overall volume. This does two things:
- Throws off the mix of the subs; if they were initially mixed well, they are now too quiet. If they were initially mixed loud, they are now mixed well)
- Makes the overall system seem super volume limited, causing me to crank to 30, where distortion exists on all the tweeters *rage*

For a while I thought this was just my ears acclimating to the sound or something (desperately trying to justify the $800),
but once I got the subs in, I could do the Jurassic park test with a cup of water, and for a given sub hit on a song it definitely
ripples much less the second time around.

From this point, I will probably just leave it as is, being slightly miserable everytime I turn the volume to 30, only to be let down with the overall
volume, hoping my next vehicle has a better system, or is easier to upgrade. Or maybeI get a bonus from work and drop all the money into a new
system, who knows.

My $0.02 "Unleashed" sucks, subs alone doesn't fix that.

Man, there are a whole lot of variables in this assumption. I have never had a kicker key, but any amp that says "gain-matching, crossover frequency control, AutoEQ, Compression, Limiter, and more, that automatically tunes your system" would seem to do as much "processing" as the stock system.
1. I am assuming you are running 2, 4 ohm subs? 2 ohm subs? I know the amp only puts out 500w at a 1 ohm load. Is it getting enough juice, or is it getting hot (less efficient?).
2. What inputs are you using for the amp? The factory sub?, the rear doors? The front doors?
3. The key says to redo the automatic gain set up every time you change the bass boost level. Have you redone that if you changed it? Just curious.
4. Do you have a "dumb" amp lying around that doesn't have any software manipulating the signal that you can use for comparison?

Anyway, I said all of that to say this. If you really believe the truck is dialing back the system, it can only do that through the Auto Noise Cancellation algorithms. There are two places that it resides, in the ACM and in the DSP. You could disable the 783-01-01 ANC (DSP), and the 727-04-01 ANC/ESE (ACM). I believe the ESE may also be the fake engine noise (not positive).

I would also flatten the EQ in the DSP 783-02-01. Since you have the "unleashed", your EQ and ANC are mostly done at the DSP level, therefore you may see value in the ACM for ANC already disabled and a flat EQ. It even looks as though, just flipping through my values that the ANC is just a preset calibration as all the ANC Mics (ACM) are disabled on my truck (also B&O unleashed), unless the DSP is using them in some active capacity.

I would try to make it as basic of install as possible just for troubleshooting purposes. Can you turn off the processing in the key? and just make it an amp? Flatten the Eq in forscan and the head unit, turn off speed compensated volume, disconnect the remote level controller, then listen and see if it behaves the same.

Sorry, sounds like some really good subs. I wish there was an option to get a new truck with rca's or fiber optic out of the head unit and nothing else so that I can do the rest, lol. Good Luck.

 

[JEB]

I have to chuckle when I hear criticisms of the B&O system like these—not because they are insincere but because I’m surprised you didn’t see this coming. Any audiophile could probably have predicted this. Bang & Olufson is a Danish company. Danes, like a lot of the audio manufacturers on that side of the pond, are not as obsessed with bass like most Americans are. They put premiums on soundstage, clarity, accurate reproduction. To a lot of European sound engineers, heavy bass sounds muddy. Think KEF, Dynaudio,Quad, Revox. To most Americans, these brands sound dry and thin even though they are undeniably high quality. B&O is cut from the same philosophical cloth. So, if you’re looking for bowel-liquifying bass, you won’t get it from B&O and there isn’t a lot you can do about that. I happen to like the B&O, particularly with lossless audio sources. But audio is like pizza and sex—everyone has a different opinion as to what’s good.

My advice, if you’re looking for bass—and anything without a bass-forward profile will automatically sound like sh*t to you—stay (run) away from European manufacturers like the plague. Otherwise, you will be disappointed. You have to look to the other side of the world. Think Mark Levinson, JBL, others under the Harmon umbrella. You’ll get the bass you want but you’ll usually sacrifice some clarity particularly in the midrange to get it. For many, it’s worth it. For others, it’s not. But regardless Ford decided to go with B&O. For good or bad depending on what you like, expect not to get thundering bass. If you absolutely have to have it, you might be stuck with getting a different truck. You can’t “fix” it because to a lot of people there is nothing wrong with it. It’s just a different approach to what qualifies as good.

 

[JohnMcClane]

Ohh man, I wanted to treat myself this time and decided to get the “unleashed” system, wish I would have gone scale and smart hitch now ?

 

[RogueCow]

Man, there are a whole lot of variables in this assumption. I have never had a kicker key, but any amp that says "gain-matching, crossover frequency control, AutoEQ, Compression, Limiter, and more, that automatically tunes your system" would seem to do as much "processing" as the stock system.
1. I am assuming you are running 2, 4 ohm subs? 2 ohm subs? I know the amp only puts out 500w at a 1 ohm load. Is it getting enough juice, or is it getting hot (less efficient?).
2. What inputs are you using for the amp? The factory sub?, the rear doors? The front doors?
3. The key says to redo the automatic gain set up every time you change the bass boost level. Have you redone that if you changed it? Just curious.
4. Do you have a "dumb" amp lying around that doesn't have any software manipulating the signal that you can use for comparison?

Anyway, I said all of that to say this. If you really believe the truck is dialing back the system, it can only do that through the Auto Noise Cancellation algorithms. There are two places that it resides, in the ACM and in the DSP. You could disable the 783-01-01 ANC (DSP), and the 727-04-01 ANC/ESE (ACM). I believe the ESE may also be the fake engine noise (not positive).

I would also flatten the EQ in the DSP 783-02-01. Since you have the "unleashed", your EQ and ANC are mostly done at the DSP level, therefore you may see value in the ACM for ANC already disabled and a flat EQ. It even looks as though, just flipping through my values that the ANC is just a preset calibration as all the ANC Mics (ACM) are disabled on my truck (also B&O unleashed), unless the DSP is using them in some active capacity.

I would try to make it as basic of install as possible just for troubleshooting purposes. Can you turn off the processing in the key? and just make it an amp? Flatten the Eq in forscan and the head unit, turn off speed compensated volume, disconnect the remote level controller, then listen and see if it behaves the same.

Sorry, sounds like some really good subs. I wish there was an option to get a new truck with rca's or fiber optic out of the head unit and nothing else so that I can do the rest, lol. Good Luck.

Yeah certainly appreciate the irony as well! I will say that I don't think my issue lies with the subs at all, as calibrated (and I have used many different reference tracks and levels to calibrate), or even uncalibrated, I have them dialed in to match the system and sit in the mix very nicely.

FWIW, they are dual 4ohm voice coil subs wired to 1 ohm for all the juice.

I think my main issue is that I was hoping the added low end would give me the perception of an overall louder system (wrong). Oh well.

I am very interested in exploring the ANC disable methods, will have to look into those more.
This is FORScan method?

 

[RogueCow]

I have to chuckle when I hear criticisms of the B&O system like these—not because they are insincere but because I’m surprised you didn’t see this coming. Any audiophile could probably have predicted this. Bang & Olufson is a Danish company. Danes, like a lot of the audio manufacturers on that side of the pond, are not as obsessed with bass like most Americans are. They put premiums on soundstage, clarity, accurate reproduction. To a lot of European sound engineers, heavy bass sounds muddy. Think KEF, Dynaudio,Quad, Revox. To most Americans, these brands sound dry and thin even though they are undeniably high quality. B&O is cut from the same philosophical cloth. So, if you’re looking for bowel-liquifying bass, you won’t get it from B&O and there isn’t a lot you can do about that. I happen to like the B&O, particularly with lossless audio sources. But audio is like pizza and sex—everyone has a different opinion as to what’s good.

My advice, if you’re looking for bass—and anything without a bass-forward profile will automatically sound like sh*t to you—stay (run) away from European manufacturers like the plague. Otherwise, you will be disappointed. You have to look to the other side of the world. Think Mark Levinson, JBL, others under the Harmon umbrella. You’ll get the bass you want but you’ll usually sacrifice some clarity particularly in the midrange to get it. For many, it’s worth it. For others, it’s not. But regardless Ford decided to go with B&O. For good or bad depending on what you like, expect not to get thundering bass. If you absolutely have to have it, you might be stuck with getting a different truck. You can’t “fix” it because to a lot of people there is nothing wrong with it. It’s just a different approach to what qualifies as good.

Yeah, I think I was just being optimistic...

My brother had a 2008 F150 with the Sony system and stock it sounded as good and powerful as some of my built systems lol

I guess Ford believes their discerning F150 driver is more interested in sound quality than db's

 

[JohnMcClane]

Yeah, I think I was just being optimistic...

My brother had a 2008 F150 with the Sony system and stock it sounded as good and powerful as some of my built systems lol

I guess Ford believes their discerning F150 driver is more interested in sound quality than db's

They really need to do a survey of F150 drivers who want louder systems and drivers who like driving with the windows down.

I bet the Venn diagram of that survey is a circle.

That is my primary complaint with the system in my 15 302A. Good luck hearing the radio rolling down interstate with the windows down.

 

[lb18]

RogueCow - does the Kicker Key double as an amp and a line out converter like a lc2i LOC? I was planning to add a sub to the unleashed when I get my truck. The little bit of info I've found was that the lc2i allows you to adjust/boost the bass level back up to normal/loud to account for the drop in bass the factory amp cuts when turning up the volume. BTW I'm a total novice at this so forgive me if I'm asking a dumb question.

I'm on the fence about removing Unleashed from the system if adding a sub doesn't work. I installed a Kicker Soundstage on my 2013 F150 and I've been really happy with it even though it doesn't have a separate bass boost adjustment. I liked the unleashed when I heard it but I thought it just needed a little more thump.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

 

[RogueCow]

RogueCow - does the Kicker Key double as an amp and a line out converter like a lc2i LOC? I was planning to add a sub to the unleashed when I get my truck. The little bit of info I've found was that the lc2i allows you to adjust/boost the bass level back up to normal/loud to account for the drop in bass the factory amp cuts when turning up the volume. BTW I'm a total novice at this so forgive me if I'm asking a dumb question.

Yes with the Kicker Key you don't need a seperate converter, it does it all in a single box.

 

[Blueshound]

They really need to do a survey of F150 drivers who want louder systems and drivers who like driving with the windows down.

I bet the Venn diagram of that survey is a circle.

That is my primary complaint with the system in my 15 302A. Good luck hearing the radio rolling down interstate with the windows down.

True! I never, ever have windows down on the interstate lol. I roll them up and close the sunroof as soon as I hit the on ramp! And for my old ears (lots of concerts in my younger days) the basic system is fine.

 

[MBE]

I have to chuckle when I hear criticisms of the B&O system like these—not because they are insincere but because I’m surprised you didn’t see this coming. Any audiophile could probably have predicted this. Bang & Olufson is a Danish company. Danes, like a lot of the audio manufacturers on that side of the pond, are not as obsessed with bass like most Americans are. They put premiums on soundstage, clarity, accurate reproduction. To a lot of European sound engineers, heavy bass sounds muddy. Think KEF, Dynaudio,Quad, Revox. To most Americans, these brands sound dry and thin even though they are undeniably high quality. B&O is cut from the same philosophical cloth. So, if you’re looking for bowel-liquifying bass, you won’t get it from B&O and there isn’t a lot you can do about that. I happen to like the B&O, particularly with lossless audio sources. But audio is like pizza and sex—everyone has a different opinion as to what’s good.

My advice, if you’re looking for bass—and anything without a bass-forward profile will automatically sound like sh*t to you—stay (run) away from European manufacturers like the plague. Otherwise, you will be disappointed. You have to look to the other side of the world. Think Mark Levinson, JBL, others under the Harmon umbrella. You’ll get the bass you want but you’ll usually sacrifice some clarity particularly in the midrange to get it. For many, it’s worth it. For others, it’s not. But regardless Ford decided to go with B&O. For good or bad depending on what you like, expect not to get thundering bass. If you absolutely have to have it, you might be stuck with getting a different truck. You can’t “fix” it because to a lot of people there is nothing wrong with it. It’s just a different approach to what qualifies as good.

Appreciated your explanation and agree with it. Thanks.

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