What to choose, what to choose?

[Jodokk]

Given that I have an Enphase Microinverter solar array in place, (which requires either a Smart switch, or other intervention to allow the panels to produce during a grid blackout) my plans and purchases have revolved around using the following, (which I have on hand):
Enphase smart-switch for load controls, and a generator input-connected Reliance Controls PB50 50-Amp (CS6375) NEMA 3R Power Inlet Box connected to a Generac 9854 HomeLink 50-Amp Indoor Pre-Wired Manual Transfer Switch Kit
as a bridge. This choice negates my solar entirely.

Another option would be the new Enphase, bidirectional charger, with the Enphase smart-switch.
(I've also been researching Emporia's bi-directional system.)

Would the Sun Run set-up be a better or cheaper option?

Does it allow for Microinverters?

At present, these panels cut off automatically during a black out.

Sponsored

 

[Zprime29]

Similar situation here, I'm waiting for Emporia's bidirectional to finally hit the market and praying it will play with our truck.

 

[Scorpio3d]

Given that I have an Enphase Microinverter solar array in place, (which requires either a Smart switch, or other intervention to allow the panels to produce during a grid blackout) my plans and purchases have revolved around using the following, (which I have on hand):
Enphase smart-switch for load controls, and a generator input-connected Reliance Controls PB50 50-Amp (CS6375) NEMA 3R Power Inlet Box connected to a Generac 9854 HomeLink 50-Amp Indoor Pre-Wired Manual Transfer Switch Kit
as a bridge. This choice negates my solar entirely.

Another option would be the new Enphase, bidirectional charger, with the Enphase smart-switch.
(I've also been researching Emporia's bi-directional system.)

Would the Sun Run set-up be a better or cheaper option?

Does it allow for Microinverters?

At present, these panels cut off automatically during a black out.

I just installed solar with the Tesla powerwall 3 and I am praying like @Zprime29 that it will play nicely with our truck as well! The cyber truck has by directional capability and the power wall three is supposed to allow for that (in the future, I believe)may have to change out the FCSP for the Tesla universal adapter?? just hoping they come up with a solution that will work!
Edit:
I chose the PW3 because through its gateway(I think that’s what it is called) it will disconnect from the grid so you are still able to use your solar and battery even if the grid is down(in a blackout)!

 

[Jodokk]

I just installed solar with the Tesla powerwall 3 and I am praying like @Zprime29 that it will play nicely with our truck as well! The cyber truck has by directional capability and the power wall three is supposed to allow for that (in the future, I believe)may have to change out the FCSP for the Tesla universal adapter?? just hoping they come up with a solution that will work!
Edit:
I chose the PW3 because through its gateway(I think that’s what it is called) it will disconnect from the grid so you are still able to use your solar and battery even if the grid is down(in a blackout)!

It's another strong choice for sure.

 

[watchdoc]

I just installed solar with the Tesla powerwall 3 and I am praying like @Zprime29 that it will play nicely with our truck as well! The cyber truck has by directional capability and the power wall three is supposed to allow for that (in the future, I believe)may have to change out the FCSP for the Tesla universal adapter?? just hoping they come up with a solution that will work!
Edit:
I chose the PW3 because through its gateway(I think that’s what it is called) it will disconnect from the grid so you are still able to use your solar and battery even if the grid is down(in a blackout)!

Why not just use the Lightning as a generator? The Powerwall 3 can accept a generator input. Let Tesla handle the software and grid integration (since the Sunrun stuff is kinda sketchy anyway) and just let the Lightning be your backup generator.

 

[Scorpio3d]

Why not just use the Lightning as a generator? The Powerwall 3 can accept a generator input. Let Tesla handle the software and grid integration (since the Sunrun stuff is kinda sketchy anyway) and just let the Lightning be your backup generator.

I will have to look into that. I do have concerns about the whole grounding thing.

 

[Newton]

Grounding is not a big deal at all for the complexity of the system that you are talking about. You are going to want a subpanel anyway so the whole setup is kind of a gimme for the electrician - you just need to switch out neutral and there are a lot of discussions about that. I use a generac homelink panel but you are more in the big leagues so I don’t know what would be recommended.

If I had the space and cost was no object, I’d have a battery in my garage that could be powered by either the grid, solar, or the truck. The battery powers the house. You can choose what percentage of the battery gets used, basically how low the battery is allowed to get when on the solar panels before the utility kicks in. This will be set up based on how generous your net metering is (the buyback from the utility company for power that you generate).

The truck manuafacturers make it way too complicated, follow the lead of the yacht builders. If the power goes out, you shouldn’t even notice.

 

[Nikola 369]

Grounding is not a big deal at all for the complexity of the system that you are talking about. You are going to want a subpanel anyway so the whole setup is kind of a gimme for the electrician - you just need to switch out neutral and there are a lot of discussions about that. I use a generac homelink panel but you are more in the big leagues so I don’t know what would be recommended.

If I had the space and cost was no object, I’d have a battery in my garage that could be powered by either the grid, solar, or the truck. The battery powers the house. You can choose what percentage of the battery gets used, basically how low the battery is allowed to get when on the solar panels before the utility kicks in. This will be set up based on how generous your net metering is (the buyback from the utility company for power that you generate).

The truck manuafacturers make it way too complicated, follow the lead of the yacht builders. If the power goes out, you shouldn’t even notice.

The system you referencing can be accomplished by Enphase. The system Controller (smart switch) acts as traffic cop for all the power and even has a built-in transfer switch. If you have this, solar panels, and a battery, you can set system to self consumption, solar will supply power to match house load and charge batteries when load is low enough. If there is a surge in load, controller will supply Solar + batteries to match needed load. If that isn’t enough, it will pull from grid, but I think it has to remove the batteries before adding grid. Enphase has a bi-directional charger now, but not for sale in the USA, only Europe. I’ve seen a video from CA where they used both a Nissan Leaf, and a Kia ( don’t remember which model) to power a test building power from charger. It worked pretty slick, no power blink like a generator switch over. Enphase had a plan to release this in Q1 2024, but are waiting on common communications and USA regulation approval. Their sight currently says “ first half of 2025” for new release date.
i have an Enphase system and waiting……..

 

[v2h8484]

Enphase had a plan to release this in Q1 2024, but are waiting on common communications and USA regulation approval. Their sight currently says “ first half of 2025” for new release date.
i have an Enphase system and waiting……..

Waiting for for it to work with the existing Lightnings? Little to no chance of that happening. Ford would likely need to make major HW and SW changes to support the "common communications" mentioned. Same for Tesla.

 

[Nikola 369]

Waiting for for it to work with the existing Lightnings? Little to no chance of that happening. Ford would likely need to make major HW and SW changes to support the "common communications" mentioned. Same for Tesla.

I’m not so sure on that. At a basic level, you initiate a charge, vehicle closes contactors to connect DC pins to battery. Now the power can flow in either direction. I think third party players will have their devices programmed to troubleshoot between 2-4 OEM std communications, waiting for correct connection. Then it will know which handshake to use and make connection to vehicle.
I think this will be harder in future with NACS connector as they will have to close 2 sets of contacters to connect battery to large pins. NACS doesn’t have separate AC & DC pins, so not sure. OEM’s don’t have much motivation to work with others, but third party does, if they want to sell more products then they need to work with everyone a much as possible.
I’m waiting for enphase to release their charger next year. Mostly they need regulatory approval and would be nice to have OEM approval,so you don’t void your warranty.

 

[v2h8484]

I think third party players will have their devices programmed to troubleshoot between 2-4 OEM std communications, waiting for correct connection.

That's unlikely since Ford and Tesla both use proprietary HW and SW with private protocols that are subject to change without notice. For example, Ford requires Bluetooth comms as part of their proprietary control system for power discharging that is not part of the yet to be finalized open standards which use power line comms. It's highly doubtful that third-party bidirectional chargers (e.g. dcBel, WallBox, Enphase, etc.) would invest in the reverse engineering and add proprietary HW and SW to support the likes of Ford and Tesla. Especially when these EV makers have explicitly stated they do not support third-party bidirectional chargers and can easily break any reverse engineered integrations with SW updates. There is little incentive for Ford or Tesla to support third-party bidirectional chargers when they offer their own. For Tesla, it's even more so as they offer their own home solar and battery equipment. It's no accident that Tesla requires use of their proprietary home battery or power switch for bidirectional power transfer in homes. Of course, the solar vendors (e.g. Enphase) are no better in terms of open standards support. I also have Enphase for solar and they refuse to support open standards/access for monitoring and control of their solar and battery equipment for integration with third-party equipment. For example, Enphase does not provide the necessary protocol/API access to their equipment for full integration with third-party smart electrical panels (e.g. Span). These companies all think they can be the Apple of their market.

 

[Nikola 369]

That's unlikely since Ford and Tesla both use proprietary HW and SW with private protocols that are subject to change without notice. For example, Ford requires Bluetooth comms as part of their proprietary control system for power discharging that is not part of the yet to be finalized open standards which use power line comms. It's highly doubtful that third-party bidirectional chargers (e.g. dcBel, WallBox, Enphase, etc.) would invest in the reverse engineering and add proprietary HW and SW to support the likes of Ford and Tesla. Especially when these EV makers have explicitly stated they do not support third-party bidirectional chargers and can easily break any reverse engineered integrations with SW updates. There is little incentive for Ford or Tesla to support third-party bidirectional chargers when they offer their own. For Tesla, it's even more so as they offer their own home solar and battery equipment. It's no accident that Tesla requires use of their proprietary home battery or power switch for bidirectional power transfer in homes. Of course, the solar vendors (e.g. Enphase) are no better in terms of open standards support. I also have Enphase for solar and they refuse to support open standards/access for monitoring and control of their solar and battery equipment for integration with third-party equipment. For example, Enphase does not provide the necessary protocol/API access to their equipment for full integration with third-party smart electrical panels (e.g. Span). These companies all think they can be the Apple of their market.

I agree, they all are trying to build an ecosystem of their own. This will make a captive audience. I think after a period of time if there is desire from customers and no coordination from OEM’s, this is when Government regulation will kick-in. The government pushed CCS1 and then had to do a coarse correction when suddenly everyone agreed to use NACS, kinda the same thing.
I agree that it’s not ideal and will be resisted to a point, but I see light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Jodokk]

The system you referencing can be accomplished by Enphase. The system Controller (smart switch) acts as traffic cop for all the power and even has a built-in transfer switch. If you have this, solar panels, and a battery, you can set system to self consumption, solar will supply power to match house load and charge batteries when load is low enough. If there is a surge in load, controller will supply Solar + batteries to match needed load. If that isn’t enough, it will pull from grid, but I think it has to remove the batteries before adding grid. Enphase has a bi-directional charger now, but not for sale in the USA, only Europe. I’ve seen a video from CA where they used both a Nissan Leaf, and a Kia ( don’t remember which model) to power a test building power from charger. It worked pretty slick, no power blink like a generator switch over. Enphase had a plan to release this in Q1 2024, but are waiting on common communications and USA regulation approval. Their sight currently says “ first half of 2025” for new release date.
i have an Enphase system and waiting……..

That's what I want!

 

[Jodokk]

That's unlikely since Ford and Tesla both use proprietary HW and SW with private protocols that are subject to change without notice. For example, Ford requires Bluetooth comms as part of their proprietary control system for power discharging that is not part of the yet to be finalized open standards which use power line comms. It's highly doubtful that third-party bidirectional chargers (e.g. dcBel, WallBox, Enphase, etc.) would invest in the reverse engineering and add proprietary HW and SW to support the likes of Ford and Tesla. Especially when these EV makers have explicitly stated they do not support third-party bidirectional chargers and can easily break any reverse engineered integrations with SW updates. There is little incentive for Ford or Tesla to support third-party bidirectional chargers when they offer their own. For Tesla, it's even more so as they offer their own home solar and battery equipment. It's no accident that Tesla requires use of their proprietary home battery or power switch for bidirectional power transfer in homes. Of course, the solar vendors (e.g. Enphase) are no better in terms of open standards support. I also have Enphase for solar and they refuse to support open standards/access for monitoring and control of their solar and battery equipment for integration with third-party equipment. For example, Enphase does not provide the necessary protocol/API access to their equipment for full integration with third-party smart electrical panels (e.g. Span). These companies all think they can be the Apple of their market.

These walled-garden approaches eventually destroy businesses, and really irritate end-users. I used a book which is a great overview of this cycle for my Technology and Society courses and it's worth a look.
The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires https://a.co/d/5cMfzwD

Sponsored