App dependency -- software and app support down the road?

[Pilot2022]

I don’t have my truck yet but was thinking what would happen to software and app support down the road?

For new cars, it is already becoming a concern… for example there is no way to remote start a Volvo suv via fob (say when you inside the house) and the only option is an app.

if I don’t pay for subscription, modem technology on the car becomes obsolete, app doesn’t run because my phone doesn’t have windows 95 or DOS…I lose that feature…

May be I am overthinking or May be everyone would be leasing and upgrading like phones/iPads that I won’t be a problem.

back to sleep…

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[Blainestang]

I don’t have my truck yet but was thinking what would happen to software and app support down the road?

For new cars, it is already becoming a concern… for example there is no way to remote start a Volvo suv via fob (say when you inside the house) and the only option is an app.

if I don’t pay for subscription, modem technology on the car becomes obsolete, app doesn’t run because my phone doesn’t have windows 95 or DOS…I lose that feature…

May be I am overthinking or May be everyone would be leasing and upgrading like phones/iPads that I won’t be a problem.

back to sleep…

This has already happened with some cars that have 2G (Leaf) and 3G (BMW i3) modules. They either lose app functionality or sometimes there's an option to pay for an upgrade to a newer module.

 

[RickLightning]

I don’t have my truck yet but was thinking what would happen to software and app support down the road?

For new cars, it is already becoming a concern… for example there is no way to remote start a Volvo suv via fob (say when you inside the house) and the only option is an app.

if I don’t pay for subscription, modem technology on the car becomes obsolete, app doesn’t run because my phone doesn’t have windows 95 or DOS…I lose that feature…

May be I am overthinking or May be everyone would be leasing and upgrading like phones/iPads that I won’t be a problem.

back to sleep…

The Lightning cannot be remote started from the FOB either.

Whether some or all of the capabilities in the app will require a subscription in the future is unknown.

Of course, one day the cellular technology in the vehicle will become obsolete. My 2013 F-150 had a 3G modem in it for Ford remote start. That became obsolete, and there was no replacement offered, so the function stopped when the 3rd party providing the capability discontinued it in late 2020, well before the 3G network was slated to be turned off. Of course those vehicles also had it via key, whereas the Lightning and Mach-E do not.

 

[GDN]

You have to stop operating like traditional auto makers who don't give a shit about what we do with our overpriced paperweights in 7 to 10 years.

They have to be built with some upgradability. They must be reengineered so that you don't have 100 modules running code.

Not here to piss some off, but it is a fact. Go look one place to see at least where you start. Tesla. There are not tons of devices through the car running SW. There are a ton of simple switches that ALL communicate with the two or three computers.

What happens when our mobile technology changes? What happens when our OS and GUI advances and become slow on the old hardware? What happens when new hardware bugs are described that put the car at risk? What happens when the car is 10 years old but otherwise still has life?

Well - you replace the fully contained computer. A single update that takes only a couple of hours. It might be a couple thousand, but it puts your 10 year old auto almost back on par with its newer brethren.

So you quit operating like the traditional auto makers. I know what I was getting into with the Lightning - just a new powertrain in an F150 that has been using the same modular type system for a few years. The redesigned truck coming from the new factory will tell us if Ford gets it and can redesign for the future.

 

[Pilot2022]

The Lightning cannot be remote started from the FOB either.

Whether some or all of the capabilities in the app will require a subscription in the future is unknown.

Of course, one day the cellular technology in the vehicle will become obsolete. My 2013 F-150 had a 3G modem in it for Ford remote start. That became obsolete, and there was no replacement offered, so the function stopped when the 3rd party providing the capability discontinued it in late 2020, well before the 3G network was slated to be turned off. Of course those vehicles also had it via key, whereas the Lightning and Mach-E do not.

dang… that’s not even a ten year old vehicle.

besides remote start, what functions are only available via an app on the Lightning?

 

[Ostrichsak]

Depends on implementation of the app. On our Teslas, all features on the app are free and the number of features on the app are FAR greater than anything else I've seen from other manufacturers. It's crazy how much stuff you can do from the app on a Tesla and features are continually added on a semi-regular basis. Plus there's no such thing as a monthly service charge for the Tesla app.

When I see the lack of features that other manufacturers offer and then have the nerve to charge a monthly subscription for access I become amused.

I haven't used a fob to do anything with my cars in years. Just have it in my pocket (or purse for my wife) and basically never think of it again and use the app for nearly everything. That's actually one of the things I'm not looking forward to on the Lightning from what I'm reading. It's just such an antiquated way of doing things much like the start button and console-mounted gear selector.

 

[Pilot2022]

Depends on implementation of the app. On our Teslas, all features on the app are free and the number of features on the app are FAR greater than anything else I've seen from other manufacturers. It's crazy how much stuff you can do from the app on a Tesla and features are continually added on a semi-regular basis. Plus there's no such thing as a monthly service charge for the Tesla app.

When I see the lack of features that other manufacturers offer and then have the nerve to charge a monthly subscription for access I become amused.

I haven't used a fob to do anything with my cars in years. Just have it in my pocket (or purse for my wife) and basically never think of it again and use the app for nearly everything. That's actually one of the things I'm not looking forward to on the Lightning from what I'm reading. It's just such an antiquated way of doing things much like the start button and console-mounted gear selector.

that’s helpful insights.
I need to go take a read at the Tesla forums and see how Elon Papa is supporting 10 year old cars and if they are still getting full app support and tech upgrades.

 

[Ostrichsak]

that’s helpful insights.
I need to go take a read at the Tesla forums and see how Elon Papa is supporting 10 year old cars and if they are still getting full app support and tech upgrades.

We are still getting support and upgrades on 10-year-old cars. The app is the same for all of the cars. You create a Tesla account and then add your car to your account and they magically show up in the app. You can then swipe left to right to manage each car, regardless of year or model. The app integration on these cars is incredibly impressive and nothing else is like it, much to my dismay as it's been this good for many many years now.

Note: Much like Autopilot type driver assistance aids, there's zero reason that the other manufacturers shouldn't offer a similar user experience with the app in their cars. None of this is EV exclusive and is more of an example of how lazy the established manufacturers have become as it applies to innovation and development.

As you can see in my sig below, I've owned 7 used Model S now and they still continue to get updates both to he car's firmware and the app. These updated include improvements, fixes, feature adds and occasionally bugs. I think it's important to notate that there are some inherent negatives to this but the pros far outweigh the cons when I consider my previous cars/trucks that were just stuck the way they were the day you got them. Super lame.

As for the tech, the big thing was the MCU or Main Control Unit which is the big ass screen you see in the center of the dash where most of the controls happen. This was the same device from when the Model S came out in 2012 so you can imagine the hardware was long in the tooth. Tesla came out with a newer version to that in 2018 and it has much better hardware capable of a lot more in terms of running existing firmware + new features as a result. Tesla offers an upgrade path for around $2k to update the older cars to this new unit.

Not cheap but it's actually not to bad when you consider what you get and the simple fact that, as of this post, no other car manufacturer would offer to bring the tech to nearly the current tech on a 10-year-old car. I hope that Ford will support their vehicles in a similar manner and that this type of option from a competitor will motivate them to get better.

 

[Pilot2022]

We are still getting support and upgrades on 10-year-old cars. The app is the same for all of the cars. You create a Tesla account and then add your car to your account and they magically show up in the app. You can then swipe left to right to manage each car, regardless of year or model. The app integration on these cars is incredibly impressive and nothing else is like it, much to my dismay as it's been this good for many many years now.

Note: Much like Autopilot type driver assistance aids, there's zero reason that the other manufacturers shouldn't offer a similar user experience with the app in their cars. None of this is EV exclusive and is more of an example of how lazy the established manufacturers have become as it applies to innovation and development.

As you can see in my sig below, I've owned 7 used Model S now and they still continue to get updates both to he car's firmware and the app. These updated include improvements, fixes, feature adds and occasionally bugs. I think it's important to notate that there are some inherent negatives to this but the pros far outweigh the cons when I consider my previous cars/trucks that were just stuck the way they were the day you got them. Super lame.

As for the tech, the big thing was the MCU or Main Control Unit which is the big ass screen you see in the center of the dash where most of the controls happen. This was the same device from when the Model S came out in 2012 so you can imagine the hardware was long in the tooth. Tesla came out with a newer version to that in 2018 and it has much better hardware capable of a lot more in terms of running existing firmware + new features as a result. Tesla offers an upgrade path for around $2k to update the older cars to this new unit.

Not cheap but it's actually not to bad when you consider what you get and the simple fact that, as of this post, no other car manufacturer would offer to bring the tech to nearly the current tech on a 10-year-old car. I hope that Ford will support their vehicles in a similar manner and that this type of option from a competitor will motivate them to get better.

thanks for sharing and great to see that a 10 year old is still well supported.

 

[Ostrichsak]

thanks for sharing and great to see that a 10 year old is still well supported.

For sure.

I don't want it to sound like I'm a commercial for Tesla. There are some glaring issues with Tesla so it's not all gum drops and daises Tesla Land but this is one area in which they do exceedingly well. I'll give credit where credit is due in hopes to help get the word out. Hopefully other consumers start to demand more from other manufacturers because then we all win.

 

[F150ROD]

Tesla update Model S modules for like $0-$1500

Ford should be able to do it cheaper now that we have decided to start making our own chips in this country

 

[GDN]

We are still getting support and upgrades on 10-year-old cars. The app is the same for all of the cars. You create a Tesla account and then add your car to your account and they magically show up in the app. You can then swipe left to right to manage each car, regardless of year or model. The app integration on these cars is incredibly impressive and nothing else is like it, much to my dismay as it's been this good for many many years now.

Note: Much like Autopilot type driver assistance aids, there's zero reason that the other manufacturers shouldn't offer a similar user experience with the app in their cars. None of this is EV exclusive and is more of an example of how lazy the established manufacturers have become as it applies to innovation and development.

As you can see in my sig below, I've owned 7 used Model S now and they still continue to get updates both to he car's firmware and the app. These updated include improvements, fixes, feature adds and occasionally bugs. I think it's important to notate that there are some inherent negatives to this but the pros far outweigh the cons when I consider my previous cars/trucks that were just stuck the way they were the day you got them. Super lame.

As for the tech, the big thing was the MCU or Main Control Unit which is the big ass screen you see in the center of the dash where most of the controls happen. This was the same device from when the Model S came out in 2012 so you can imagine the hardware was long in the tooth. Tesla came out with a newer version to that in 2018 and it has much better hardware capable of a lot more in terms of running existing firmware + new features as a result. Tesla offers an upgrade path for around $2k to update the older cars to this new unit.

Not cheap but it's actually not to bad when you consider what you get and the simple fact that, as of this post, no other car manufacturer would offer to bring the tech to nearly the current tech on a 10-year-old car. I hope that Ford will support their vehicles in a similar manner and that this type of option from a competitor will motivate them to get better.

This is key and even the same with the Model 3/Y which is already now 5 years old. The first cars came with what was called HW 2.5. All of them were fully upgradable to the next gen HW when it was released and Tesla even did many of them free as the HW was needed for what they believe FSD would take at the time.

Each revision of their HW is backward compatible. The Model S has had newer boards that are updatable at reasonable prices. This brought the GUI up to speed to support current code and features.

To be able to do this you have to control your ecosystem. They've run their own flavor of an OS, they don't embrace Car Play and AA. While that should be able to lay right on top as an app, I'm 1000% behind their decision not to support them to date. Why? First Tesla has done a great job on their GUI and navigation I don't need other apps; and after having used CarPlay in the Lightning for a few months it's horribly laggy. Pandora quits playing for no reason and I have to keep reorienting the map. It drives me nuts. None of that happened in the Tesla. It worked. Pure and simple.

This thread was about the app and @Ostrichsak covered some of this, but it is FAST. It connects to the car in seconds when asleep and almost instantly when it is awake. I can see all chargers and exactly how many are in use within a large distance of my current location. I can vent the windows and close the windows remotely. I can review my historical charging. I can even buy my performance upgrade right from the app. Touch the button and spend $2K in seconds.

From the app I can schedule service and move appointments, I can call Roadside assistance, I can control Valet mode, set max speed limits for other drivers, I can even set camp mode and dog mode as well as the Cabin Overheat Protection. Again - all responding real time.

I am a fan boy - I know it comes across. I note it so that others can see what Tesla has really done. How easy and continued updates you can make it for your owners, if the HW is designed right, with an eco system that supports easy SW updates.

We are only a year in and Ford didn't make their release of Android OS as they projected, but even if they had, it had already been noted that the one year old trucks most of us are already driving would never have an upgrade path. That is just wrong. This is what we strive for from Ford (and others) in their next generation that gets designed from the ground up.

 

[RickLightning]

dang… that’s not even a ten year old vehicle.

besides remote start, what functions are only available via an app on the Lightning?

Here's what my Mach-E can do via the FordPass app:

Lock / Unlock / Start / Stop (via cellular)
Horn & Lights (via cellular)
Windows Up, Windows Down, Front Trunk, Trunk (via Bluetooth, must enable PaaK)
See my location (updates when it wants to)
Odometer, % battery charge, estimated DTE
Set a departure time, see my tire pressure, set my charge settings at a saved location, charge in the BlueOval Network, see my charging history (lacks detail), see my EV driving history (lacks accuracy, almost worthless), control WiFi hotspot
set Securialert so I can see when someone opens door, hood, trunk - MAYBE, and often very delayed
Plan a trip using Trip Planner, including finding chargers (works so-so)

 

[RickLightning]

dang… that’s not even a ten year old vehicle.

besides remote start, what functions are only available via an app on the Lightning?

Ford Remote Access was used as recently as 2016 / 2017 as I recall, so vehicles less than 4 years old lost the capability I believe.

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