Farley says Hybrid and Range-extenders are the answer for trucks (except fleets)

[Maineiac12]

For big trucks, I still think an EREV is the way to go until battery costs come down or the energy density goes up (or both!)

The gas engine is on there to charge the battery but it’s not connected to the wheels so you’d have the benefits of an EV - electric motors, instant torque, regen brakes, no transmission, quiet, etc., with a few downsides of ICE like buying gas and oil changes. Hopefully the battery is big enough that 80-90% of driving would still be all electric.

This kind of a setup would help bring in the public who still has range anxiety and the more vehicles on the road with electric power is better for all of us. The higher the install base of plug in vehicles, the more chargers will be built to accommodate them.

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[Maxx]

My thinking on the “unresolvable” comment is it is in regards to being able to make it profitably. They can’t seem to get to the same price point of the similar large truck ICE vehicle. Yet. Over time, battery costs will come down and it will be a no brainer. They are not there yet.

I wonder how much of the problem is production cost and how much is the quality issues:

https://qz.com/ford-warranty-costs-earnings-1851605102

 

[bthanos]

It’s all about BOM costs. Warrantee problems aren’t deciders as those factor into all car types. He’s trying to invest in developing cars he can sell profitably now. As the market is saying it won’t pay a premium for BEV he’s doubly challenged on vehicles that require a large one which means low efficiency trucks. The smaller vehicles require less battery which means he can increase the profit and compare favorably to ICE versions.

 

[Hammick]

For big trucks, I still think an EREV is the way to go until battery costs come down or the energy density goes up (or both!)

The gas engine is on there to charge the battery but it’s not connected to the wheels so you’d have the benefits of an EV - electric motors, instant torque, regen brakes, no transmission, quiet, etc., with a few downsides of ICE like buying gas and oil changes. Hopefully the battery is big enough that 80-90% of driving would still be all electric.

This kind of a setup would help bring in the public who still has range anxiety and the more vehicles on the road with electric power is better for all of us. The higher the install base of plug in vehicles, the more chargers will be built to accommodate them.

I'm not sure an EREV will convince many people. If the battery is decent sized at all they will still be super expensive. I haven't been able to convince anyone to get an EV. Even my most down to earth, rational and educated family and friends are afraid of them. I'm guessing all of us early adopters are "car" guys and gals. I know I am.

 

[Joe.....Montana]

This, 100%. If you could recharge 10-80 in the 15 min span (hello, Hyundai and Lucid), then your overall range is less of a concern. You could keep the same size battery and even when towing just recharge that quickly, it's practically fine. I also do not agree that the issues are "unresolvable" -- especially for the large SUVs. The Lucid Gravity has the cargo space of a Chevy Suburban and can still go 450 miles on a 123 kWh battery. Last I checked there isn't a larger SUV than the Suburban, so getting the same cargo space as that is definitely a "large" SUV. This is a lot of talk to appease short term profits/investors.

Anyone that says any problem is "unresolvable' is incredibly narrow-minded and a fool. Tech progresses so fast and things change. Don't be like the NYT in 1903 saying it would take millions of years for humans to create an airplane. Or Steve Ballmer laughing at the iPhone saying touchscreens don't work because they have limitations for typing and price....If this is how Ford really thinks then my next car will be 100% not be a Ford (not that Ford or anyone cares about what I do).

Would love to get into a Lucid Gravity to replace our Highlander Hybrid. Tough to swallow the $100k price tag and worry about service up in Montana.

 

[sean7512]

Would love to get into a Lucid Gravity to replace our Highlander Hybrid. Tough to swallow the $100k price tag and worry about service up in Montana.

Yea, their service network is the biggest barrier for them or Rivian at this point. Ford dealers may not be great, but its better than having absolutely no choices....

 

[lightspeed]

I like Farley, but he is looking at his feet instead forward.

Chinese car companies TODAY are buying batteries near $5000 per 100kWh and it's coming down 10% to 20% per year. Gen2/3 batteries will be 2x to 3x the current energy density, perhaps some version of solid-state, with more charge cycles and higher charge rates.

Chinese car companies TODAY have demonstrated cars that charge at 400kW+, 10% to 80% in like 9 minutes! The Chinese make mediocre EVs that cost $13K and very good EVs that cost $30K. American and German cars are dead in China (except for very high end luxury).

Farley needs to figure out how to compete with Chinese production on BEVs or Ford is done. The only moat they have now is cheap gas, tariffs on imported trucks, and the ban on Chinese cars.

Given the current direction of the industry, there is a high chance that most future vehicles will be branded vehicles made in Chinese factories. There is nothing special about a car that can't be made cheaper in China.

Range extenders are what Ford should have done for the Lightning. Not for the next-gen platform.

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