Interesting article on the new Climate Bill

[Theo1000]

I’d love to onshore but we need about 50 million new people to make all the things we import. Right now it is tough to find people to staff $100,000 type jobs, so not sure we need to be looking at $10,000 type jobs. While battery cell final assembly is a clean room type activity, it is also mostly automated. The actual mineral and casing production is closer to a $10,000 job type activity.

That said being dependent on China type countries is not a good idea long term. As EU is finding out WRT Russia. These are not countries to trust. Automation is not cheap but we may have to pay more and automate.

WRT renewable, never understand the variable production polemics. Our grid managers know very well how to forecast and here in the MW the SPP can tell you 10 days out + / - 1-2% what the power output is going to be minute by minute. Its cheap cheap power folks not withstanding these learned university folks from 2017, an eternity away in term of renewable industry, and to be ignored.

I and anyone else can go purchase power for under $30 / mwh on the open market. Amortized wind farm west of me, no PTC, sells power under $15 / mwh on open market. We are smart enough to figure out how to ship it around and use it. Where I live it rains maybe 12 days in a year, yet we find ways to store and ship the water so no one does without. Never understand this logic of saying humans are dumb enough not to figure out how to use cheap electricity because it is only available in periodic process. Its cheap folks, count your blessing (literally), and enjoy it….

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[MM in SouthTX]

Never understand this logic of saying humans are dumb enough not to figure out how to use cheap electricity because it is only available in periodic process. Its cheap folks, count your blessing (literally), and enjoy it….

We will figure it out. We are just not there yet. Gotta have 100% backup, or we will periodically freeze in the winter and bake in the summer. So we have to subsidize the backup power so it remains available and ready to operate. We essentially have to pay them to not operate while the “cheaper” (because it’s subsidized) energy idles it. We can’t expect NG plants to sit idle losing money while being ready to flip a switch to be available when we need them. At least until we get storage for renewables.

 

[Theo1000]

We will figure it out. We are just not there yet. Gotta have 100% backup, or we will periodically freeze in the winter and bake in the summer. So we have to subsidize the backup power so it remains available and ready to operate. We essentially have to pay them to not operate while the “cheaper” (because it’s subsidized) energy idles it. We can’t expect NG plants to sit idle losing money while being ready to flip a switch to be available when we need them. At least until we get storage for renewables.

True enough but...

WRT the NG back up. A while ago a industry back of envelope calculation was done that should a ~ $50 Billion capacity charge bill to NG back-up the entire nation. Much of this has already been built. Chump change for place like USA.

I live in a state with over 50% RE, (including solitary Nuke), power is cheap cheap and utility tells me 100% should be no issues in 20-30 years. Hard, diamond hard, conservative operationally utility mind you. I trust them to pull it off. Old enough to remember a time polemics said that a 2% RE grid would cause collapse. Humans are smart, I don't worry about it.

BTW, Texas grid collapsed because stupid (apologies to Texans) grid is isolated from rest of country. During ice-o-calypse, there was 25,000 MW + of generation to the North of Texas that could not bail out state. No similar collapse in OK for instance.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

BTW, Texas grid collapsed because stupid (apologies to Texans) grid is isolated from rest of country.

“Because” is probably the wrong word but I see your point. Not sure outside grids could have sent us much though. They were maxed as I recall.
Edit—SPP grid north of TX had rolling blackouts as well. https://okcoop.org/rolling-blackouts-the-spp-and-the-future/

 

[MM in SouthTX]

This is an interesting article for those interested in the future capabilities of wind to replace instead of just idle carbon emitting plants. https://www.technologyreview.com/20...tery-included-can-keep-power-supplies-stable/

 

[world2steven]

Storage is definitely an issue with renewable energy but let’s bring the discussion back to bidirectional charging. I have no idea whether it would have been enough to avert what happened in Texas if everyone owned a Lightning. (It definitely would have helped anyone who did.) While extreme weather events are becoming more frequent, they are still relatively rare. So, do you really need to preserve your ability to drive 300 miles if you find yourself in the middle of one?

Nor do I think we can solve the storage problem with batteries, especially now with the resources to produce them so severely constrained. There is a wide variety of gravity storage technologies that could be employed to provide backup power AKA ‘feedstock’. But they are not as easy to bring online as battery backup. Until there is a better solution, what’s wrong with making the best use of the one we have?

In the meantime, what’s wrong with a little grid management, especially during a power emergency? Do we really have the right to expect every time we flip a switch for whatever purpose, the power will be there?

 

[3LCD]

No electric vehicles on the market today qualify for the new EV tax credit - The Verge

Solid Article on this.

Bonus: Buying an EV is about to be a pain in the ass, thanks to stricter tax credits - The Verge

 

[greenne]

No electric vehicles on the market today qualify for the new EV tax credit - The Verge

Solid Article on this.

Bonus: Buying an EV is about to be a pain in the ass, thanks to stricter tax credits - The Verge

The top article is clickbait BS. Yes its a concern, but the market is changing and automakers will adapt. The "headline" is inaccurate, gives the impression that upon passage NO Evs will be eligible. That is simply not true.
" According to the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, the auto industry’s main lobbying group, there are currently 72 EV models available for purchase in the United States, including battery, plug-in hybrid, and fuel cell electric vehicles. Of those models, 70 percent are ineligible for the tax credit when the bill passes. And by 2029, when the additional sourcing requirements go into effect, none would qualify for the full credit. "

I'm not debating the EV bill is problematic for automakers and limits the number of EV credits in the short term, only that the headline is false.

 

[hturnerfamily]

one of the 'concerns' listed by some as they 'we' don't need to be subsidizing the EV buyers who are already 'wealthy' enough to afford one in the first place...but,

I differ... at least if you believe that adoption of EVs is something you want to see us move toward.

If you provide an incentive across the board, no matter what financial demographic EV buyers fall into, and no matter the 'price' of the vehicle, you will see more, and quicker, adoption - 'Weeding out' incentives for the so-called 'wealthy' almost defies the logic of mass adoption - you really WANT the 'wealthy' to lead the way.

Of course, most of us here are 'wealthy'.

 

[cvalue13]

Of those models, 70 percent are ineligible for the tax credit when the bill passes. …

I'm not debating the EV bill is problematic for automakers and limits the number of EV credits in the short term, only that the headline is false.

And those 70% are ineligible immediately because they are not assembled in North America.

Tax-credit-wise, the bill was intentionally structured to knee-cap foreign-assembled vehicles.

At times these articles almost appear to suggest that this knee-capping was an inadvertent oversight.

Interesting to read thatSenator Rubio introduced an amendment that would require 100 percent of battery materials to be sourced in North America immediately, rather than allow a phase-in period.

Goes to show from where the broader EV poison pills derived.

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