Pro power ground fault detected on 240v well pump

[dirtdiver]

Let me check with the pump controller company. They have an 800 number. That was a good idea, thanks.

steve

Also I hate to call the well guy. He will want to pull the pump up and that starts the clock at $1500 just to pull the pipe up out of the ground. Im at 900ft of depth. Let me call the controller company and go from there.

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[FlasherZ]

It could very well be that you have some current leaking to ground somewhere - pump motor windings shorted to the case, or some of the control current going through the ground, etc. You can inspect all the wiring, make sure terminals and circuit boards are clean, but if it still doesn't clear, the pump may have to be pulled to check its motor health.

 

[Crilly]

The yellow wire has to attach to the ground wire some where. Probably in the plug to the well pump.

 

[Avocadodude]

Didn't mean to disappear today, actually had to fix an irrigation issue at the farm. This heat is brutal...

I haven't used a Phase VFD, I'll look through their manuals. I see Phase makes some phase conversion controllers (explains the name), so I'm assuming the pump is 3 phase (you're converting the split phase 240v to 3 phase)? That would explain the UVW, but not sure why the black wire has a nut on it. If I had to guess someone took 110v off there at some point.

Also I have not checked phase accuracy on the Ford.

As @Maquis said check resistance between ground and neutral on the cord, make sure someone didn't connect it(neutral) to ground. Also (while not plugged in to Ford or generator) check resistance between the 3 phases to ground from the pump, Not sure how sensitive the Ford is to leakage.

I'm following this thread and curious, because all my pumps are 3 phase and I had not given much thought to using the truck in an emergency to run pumps. I'll have to look into these Phase controllers and might look at building a portable emergency pump kit.

 

[dirtdiver]

Didn't mean to disappear today, actually had to fix an irrigation issue at the farm. This heat is brutal...

I haven't used a Phase VFD, I'll look through their manuals. I see Phase makes some phase conversion controllers (explains the name), so I'm assuming the pump is 3 phase (you're converting the split phase 240v to 3 phase)? That would explain the UVW, but not sure why the black wire has a nut on it. If I had to guess someone took 110v off there at some point.

Also I have not checked phase accuracy on the Ford.

As @Maquis said check resistance between ground and neutral on the cord, make sure someone didn't connect it(neutral) to ground. Also (while not plugged in to Ford or generator) check resistance between the 3 phases to ground from the pump, Not sure how sensitive the Ford is to leakage.

I'm following this thread and curious, because all my pumps are 3 phase and I had not given much thought to using the truck in an emergency to run pumps. I'll have to look into these Phase controllers and might look at building a portable emergency pump kit.

The black wire has a wire nut on it because the well guy screwed up . He torqued down so hard on that black wire screw that it broke off. His work around was to provide that little stub of a wire to connect that terminal. You can see the head of that screw is missing. steve

 

[Maquis]

Didn't mean to disappear today, actually had to fix an irrigation issue at the farm. This heat is brutal...

I haven't used a Phase VFD, I'll look through their manuals. I see Phase makes some phase conversion controllers (explains the name), so I'm assuming the pump is 3 phase (you're converting the split phase 240v to 3 phase)? That would explain the UVW, but not sure why the black wire has a nut on it. If I had to guess someone took 110v off there at some point.

Also I have not checked phase accuracy on the Ford.

As @Maquis said check resistance between ground and neutral on the cord, make sure someone didn't connect it(neutral) to ground. Also (while not plugged in to Ford or generator) check resistance between the 3 phases to ground from the pump, Not sure how sensitive the Ford is to leakage.

I'm following this thread and curious, because all my pumps are 3 phase and I had not given much thought to using the truck in an emergency to run pumps. I'll have to look into these Phase controllers and might look at building a portable emergency pump kit.

If the wiring is correct, my suspicion is that the controller has some kind of surge suppression circuitry that connects between the input lines and the EGC. If so, I’d expect it to include instructions to not use GFCI protection on the input.
I have to presume the GFCI limit on the truck is 6 mA, otherwise it would be referred to a GFPE.

 

[FlasherZ]

The yellow wire has to attach to the ground wire some where. Probably in the plug to the well pump.

Not necessarily, although that can create the ground fault situation.

And it should never purposely be done there.

Grounds and neutrals are supposed to be kept separate everywhere but a single location. In olden days, this was considered ok, but then they figured out it gives people shocks when you have ground loops everywhere. Electricity doesn't just use one path, it uses all available paths in inverse proportion to resistance.

 

[Avocadodude]

The black wire has a wire nut on it because the well guy screwed up . He torqued down so hard on that black wire screw that it broke off. His work around was to provide that little stub of a wire to connect that terminal. You can see the head of that screw is missing. steve

Ah, I did notice the head was missing. Thanks for clearing up that mystery.

 

[dirtdiver]

Not necessarily, although that can create the ground fault situation.

And it should never purposely be done there.

Grounds and neutrals are supposed to be kept separate everywhere but a single location. In olden days, this was considered ok, but then they figured out it gives people shocks when you have ground loops everywhere. Electricity doesn't just use one path, it uses all available paths in inverse proportion to resistance.

I can dig in there and make sure that the yellow wire isn't grounded to the case. I imagine not but it would be easy to check. Thanks.
steve

 

[jefro]

You can double check by making an adapter for gen set to include a gfci. Bet it will trip too.
I suspect you have path to ground.

 

[dirtdiver]

Ss the good news is Ive been running my welder and plasma cutter with no issues. Still no joy on the well pump and I guess i will just live with that at this point. The plasma cutter was pulling about 3100 watts from both legs. I ended up moving that little compressor up to the Frunk outlets where it pulled 1100watts.

 

[Crilly]

Still did not try what I suggested.

 

[dirtdiver]

Still did not try what I suggested.

@Maquis

I dug into the panel to see where the yellow wire from the power source goes. It was cut off and connected to nothing. I put a wire nut on it to ensure that was the case. Do you guys think I should try to tie it into the ground wire?

steve

 

[FlasherZ]

@Maquis

I dug into the panel to see where the yellow wire from the power source goes. It was cut off and connected to nothing. I put a wire nut on it to ensure that was the case. Do you guys think I should try to tie it into the ground wire?

steve

It's likely not your problem if the neutral wire is cut off, it just means everything in the entire circuit is 240V.

You probably have some leakage current through ground in the pump motor or the control board somewhere. Bad news is that it can be very difficult to find, and you'll likely have to replace parts until it stops.

I have a heated holding cabinet that experiences the same ground fault symptoms and for the life of me I can't find the leakage current. There is no voltage from metal case to ground, so it's not a shock hazard, but I suspect it's something on the control board (which I can't get anymore) that has gone south and leaks current to ground (but doesn't materially affect operation).

 

[Maquis]

@Maquis

I dug into the panel to see where the yellow wire from the power source goes. It was cut off and connected to nothing. I put a wire nut on it to ensure that was the case. Do you guys think I should try to tie it into the ground wire?

steve

No, don’t connect the yellow wire from the source to ground. That will guarantee a GFCI trip.
Flasher covered everything else.

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