Towing thoughts/questions

[PungoteagueDave]

Most of Tesla's installed base is paired, 90%(?). It's not that big an issue as even Tesla's are lucky to charge at 150kW rate due to all kinds of factors with car and charger.

I'm happy if I get over 50kW (200 miles an hour).

That's crazy - I'd have your car checked. I routinely start out at 140+. I have a Raven MX. Perhaps you have an older Tesla with throttled charging?

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[PungoteagueDave]

1. You specifically noted that 250kW Superchargers would split to 125kW and 125kW. The 250kW ones (v3) do not work like that, so I was clarifying.

2. North America has about 1600 Supercharger locations (per supercharge.info) and ~430 of those locations are 250kW (per Plugshare), so that's ~25% and growing.

Eagles PDX makes a lot of stuff up to fit his agenda. We're both Tesla owners - I'm not a Tesla fan, do love the cars but not the company or Elon Musk, criticize them regularly, but he's an anti-Tesla owner, and finds zero fault with anything Ford or EA. He's a full-on EA fanbio despite constant and documented unreliability in that network, won't acknowledge basic facts like the inability to see charger status from within OEM NAV systems.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Having ordered a 2022 non-L this week the difference in the tow packages is $1k or $1900 (max), however the slight increase in tow lbs was not worth the doubling up of the leaf springs in the rea end (Youtube has videos).....the rear end would drive stiffer empty on the max package hence I ordered the standard tow package. Granted my trailer is only 5klbs so depends on what you want to tow.......

I have a lightning reserved but I'm cooling off on the idea due to charging stations are not going to be trailer friendly anytime soon as real issue for our light RV'ing.

I honestly don't think that drive-through charging is that big of a deal - I've towed small trailers with Teslas since 2014 and have never needed to unhitch the trailer while Supercharging. Many EA locations have side-loaded chargers, and the location of the Lightning's charge port is at the front, so the issue will be how much space is behind the charger, or whether you can pull along the row and then swing in - my sense is that many locations have the space to do this, albeit possibly blocking some other non-charging spots. The bottom line is that non-EV owners have more angst over charging than actual EV owners. I have had some range anxiety while driving over 250k miles in electric vehicles, but not in the last five years. Admittedly, towing may change that a bit...

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I think using campgrounds to recharge every few hours might be the only way to do a long towing trip and that would add several days to any decent trip.

My guess-ti-math is:

180 miles is the maximum range for towing. You're looking at a more likely 10-stop halfway and 20-stop cross country trip. Even if you could hit 2 sites per day, it would take you 5 or 10 days.

That might even be too ideal. I wanna test it out, but only in collaboration with FoMoCo as a support team.

Nah - I used campgrounds and marinas in 2013 and 2014 before the Supercharger network existed. Those days are over. Superchargers and DCFC are ubiquitous within the 180-mile range you speculate these days on most travel corridors. Check the maps - and they are filling in every day - I am an EA critic, and they still have huge gaps in areas I care about, but going East/West or North South, you are covered within your range spec.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=56.521752356345885,-33.39955542500001,12.401932806199708,-118.301899175&zoom=5&filters=store,service,supercharger,destination charger,bodyshop,party

EA Network as of today (first Image):

Tesla Supercharger network as of today (second image):
Both courtesy plugshare.com

 

[EaglesPDX]

Pulled that one out of your butt?

Just going by our local ones that are used frequently. OR is a long time Tesla area and got built out early so we have a lot of the older ones, the ones most folks will find on their travels because Tesla has such a large installed base of the 150kW's.

And Tesla just started with the 250kW installs in early 2020 after announcing in 2019.

As to benefits of 250kW vs. 150kW, this pretty much describes my experience at our Longview 250's that I use on weekends at the shore.

Tesla's 250-kW Supercharger Only Saved Us 2 Minutes vs. a 150-kW Charger We tested each of Tesla's high-output charging stations with our long-term 2019 Tesla Model 3.

F150EV and MachE both top out at 150kWh rate so using EA's 350kW or Tesla's smaller 250kW will not make any difference to the Fords.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Perhaps you have an older Tesla with throttled charging?

It's a 2019 Model 3 which is rated for 250kW. It's not that you won't see 250 or 150 now and then but it's rare if no other reason than the charging curve for the battery on top of the battery state, temp, charger issues.

When you use fast DC charging 100% of the time for years as I've done, you get a good idea of the basic charge rates.

The reference and link above describe most people's charging experience.

To this topic on towing with the F150EV with its 150kW charge rate, you can probably look to MachE drivers for what to expect. With all the EA's at least 150kW, F150 owners should be pretty much following the curve.

I have not seen any mention of Pre-Conditioning for charging mentioned for the MachE or F150EV, that has a lot to do with the charging rate also.

 

[Squatch]

Nah - I used campgrounds and marinas in 2013 and 2014 before the Supercharger network existed. Those days are over. Superchargers and DCFC are ubiquitous within the 180-mile range you speculate these days on most travel corridors. Check the maps - and they are filling in every day - I am an EA critic, and they still have huge gaps in areas I care about, but going East/West or North South, you are covered within your range spec.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=56.521752356345885,-33.39955542500001,12.401932806199708,-118.301899175&zoom=5&filters=store,service,supercharger,destination charger,bodyshop,party

EA Network as of today (first Image):

Tesla Supercharger network as of today (second image):
Both courtesy plugshare.com

Great post, thank you!

I think, for my sanity, I would stop at campgrounds every other charge if I could.

 

[jefro]

Lucky there aren't too many gas or diesel stations that require one to back up when finished. I've been forced by other customers to back up with a trailer. Isn't that safe.

 

[MnLakeBum]

Saw this today regarding the Rivian and towing..

First real-world Rivian R1T towing test shows huge range loss - Drive Tesla (driveteslacanada.ca)

62% range loss..but...

- 73mph hwy speeds
-7000lb trailer
- Its November in the midwest US (cold)
- Also-- Detroit-->LA...into the wind and up over the Rockies

I will be shocked if it doesn't lose 50% when towing a larger load. I lose over 50% when towing my boat(7,400 lbs with trailer) behind my 2018 diesel Range Rover that has the optional F150 Ford Lion engine. I get 28-29 mpg during normal driving and about 14mpg while towing and I tow at lower highway speeds than I normally drive.

Cold weather is obviously a real range reducer for EV's. I have a 2015 Model S(126k miles) that now has a indicated max of 233 miles and the best I do in warm weather is about 195 miles. On a typical winter day in Minnesota I get about 150 miles max.

 

[jefro]

One testing web site has close to 50% on a small run at max towing. Seemed kinda high at almost #9K. They were on two routes. One basically uphill and the second an up and down patch back to sea level.
I'd think that is exactly inline with my gas model's loss. Just easier to get gas currently.

 

[greenne]

Another tow test with the Rivian...
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-far-can-you-tow-with-electric-truck-range/

Results: about 50% of range towing 9000lbs. (Thats way heavier than I'll probably tow--I'll probably top out around 5000lbs)

If I can get ~200mi with a large uhaul or mid size boat I'm good

 

[vandy1981]

Results: about 50% of range towing 9000lbs. (Thats way heavier than I'll probably tow--I'll probably top out around 5000lbs)

The trailer/payload that MT used looked pretty old and not very aerodynamic, so maybe there's hope for better range with an aero-optimized rig.

I'd be very happy if I can squeeze out 150 miles with a 5200lb travel trailer. That would mean ~120 miles between charges if I keep the SOC between 10 and 90%. That will get us to the usual camping/hunting spots with one charge en route.

I'd be ready for a break after 2 hours of driving anyway and 45 minutes of charging goes pretty fast if you're accounting for a bathroom break, snacks and a dog walk.

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