Uh, Oh... looks like the EV tax credits are hitting an obstacle

[shutterbug]

So the US too? Again we export quite a bit of crude. Not through NOC's like many of the OPEC members but the IOC's are certainly benefiting from higher crude prices as well.

Doesn't matter. The individual consumers are paying more!!!

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[techguydave]

And, for those who charge these at home, further put the burden of road taxes on those ICE powered vehicles who cannot escape road taxes.

I don't know how it is in every state, but at least in a few (including mine) EV registration costs upwards of a few hundred bucks more to help pay for those road taxes.

 

[shutterbug]

Kona EV is one of the best EV's out there.

Better tech than a Tesla.

That Kona has a direct ICE version is a convenience which shows the EV/ICE differential.

$17k

Actual difference a touch under $13K.

If Kona EV is so great, why isn't selling? Because Hyundai isn't selling them across the country. No incentive is going to help that.

 

[EaglesPDX]

So, basically you just want taxpayers to subsidize your lust for luxury features in a truck?

I want my tax dollars to go to global warming solutions such as EV's.

If you want to lobby against government subsidies, start with the $12B a year fossil fuel producers get per year. Or have Exxon pay off the $17T in US debt from the 30 years of Middle East oil wars to protect Exxon et al's "investments" in Middle East oil and the distribution system that havec caused the global warming problem.

It is exactly the government's job to address global warming since solutions benefit all and require long term planning and good science vs. just a view to benefit personal profit or ideology at public expense.

 

[Blainestang]

Kona EV is one of the best EV's out there.

Better tech than a Tesla.

That Kona has a direct ICE version is a convenience which shows the EV/ICE differential.

$17k

The cheapest gas Kona is $21k. The base Kona EV is $34k.

Also, that's not apples to apples because the Kona EV has way more power and features than a base Kona. It's at least comparable to a gas Kona N-Line which is $25k+.

The absolute base gas Kona is not an apples-to-apples comparison with the Kona EV. The price gap is way smaller than that.

Furthermore, we don't know if the Kona EV's price is inflated by the tax credit (See the original, hilarious base price of $37,500 for the Bolt or the current pricing on Teslas that are clearly adjusted for the potential new credit). The price might be even closer to the gas version if there was no credit.

 

[EaglesPDX]

If Kona EV is so great, why isn't selling?

We've already established that the Kona EV is one of the bet EV's on the market.

As stated, the price differential is too high for a working person (80% of US buyers) and the subsidies are not enough to make up for it.

We need a subsidy that will equalize the price for the EV over the ICE. One could argue a subsidy to cover both the cost differential ($15k +/-) and the EV issues to get buyers to choose EV over ICE.

Using Kona example, a $20k immediately applicable credit, would provide the incentive to increase sales and production of EV's.

 

[Blainestang]

If Kona EV is so great, why isn't selling? Because Hyundai isn't selling them across the country. No incentive is going to help that.

Do they have excess production and they're just not bothering to sell them outside CARB states because of lack of demand?

Or are they building as many as they can, so they're just selling the ones they have in CARB states because it means extra profit (via CARB credits)?

I don't know the answer for sure. I would have thought that at $26,500 after tax credit it would be fairly popular outside CARB states, too.

 

[shutterbug]

We've already established that the Kona EV is one of the bet EV's on the market.

Actually, no we have not. Since Hyundai won't sell it to me, it's the same as it does not exist on the market.

As stated, the price differential is too high for a working person (80% of US buyers) and the subsidies are not enough to make up for it.

At $34K Kona is already below average US car price.

Using Kona example, a $20k immediately applicable credit, would provide the incentive to increase sales and production of EV's.

A $20K subsidy would make Kona EV the cheapest car today. If it's one of the best, why is it failing to sell?

 

[shutterbug]

Do they have excess production and they're just not bothering to sell them outside CARB states because of lack of demand?

Or are they building as many as they can, so they're just selling the ones they have in CARB states because it means extra profit (via CARB credits)?

I don't know the answer for sure. I would have thought that at $26,500 after tax credit it would be fairly popular outside CARB states, too.

Another reason might be that Hyundai dealers don't want to invest in supporting EVs (sales and service), unless they are forced to. In the end it doesn't matter why. Obviously Hyundai did not want to push it.

 

[Blainestang]

Another reason might be that Hyundai dealers don't want to invest in supporting EVs (sales and service), unless they are forced to. In the end it doesn't matter why. Obviously Hyundai did not want to push it.

I does matter why, though.

If they have way more demand than supply, but only enough supply to sell in Europe/Korea/CARB states, then that's a good reason. They might as well get the most money/benefit for each car. They aren't going to take units that they could easily sell in CARB states and spread them all over the US just to make less money.

Again, I don't follow the Kona/Niro super closely, but if they're selling approximately all the cars they can build to Europe, Korea, and CARB states, then it's not really a demand problem. Of course, maybe the margins on it aren't good enough to justify figuring out how to make more to sell in non-CARB states. Hard to say... but I think it is relevant to the discussion to know why they don't sell in non-CARB states. Is it lack of demand? Or lack of supply?

 

[shutterbug]

4.Federal EV tax credits ($2B to Tesla alone)

How much in the last 2 years? Once the credits were gone, did sales drop of a cliff? How many Tesla Model Y sold without any federal subsidies?

 

[Akovia]

Cancel all credits and let the car companies compete with Tesla on an even playing field. Then Ford would have to drop the price of the truck - we win.

Well, Tesla has received $4.9 Billion in tax credits, subsidies, and EV sale credits. So, yeah, let’s equalize that for ALL EV manufacturers.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Since Hyundai won't sell it to me, it's the same as it does not exist on the market.

Except you are not "the market".

That it sits on the lot in pro-EV states (Kona ships to CARB states mostly) with good state EV incentives on top of the Federal tax credit proves the point that the $13-$17k price differential is too much to move a great EV. Many in the economic demographic of the Kona don't qualify for the subsidy as it is.

All evidence points to raising the EV subsidies to boost sales and production. That has been proven effective around the world in all economies.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Again, I don't follow the Kona/Niro super closely, but if they're selling approximately all the cars they can build to Europe, Korea, and CARB states, then it's not really a demand problem.

It is in US. In EU and China the incentives are better and the Kona is a hot seller.

 

[EaglesPDX]

How much in the last 2 years?

ZEV credits show as $1.2B in 2019 and 2020 combined. There are also billion$ in state tax breaks that come due each year as every Tesla facility has received huge tax breaks.

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