Dealers asking for $5K - $30K ADM markup on 2022 F150 Lightning!

[BennyTheBeaver]

I think dealer's should be converted to Delivery Centers.

A current dealer should still be able to sell used vehicles, and have a complete service/parts department, however when it comes to sales they should just be delivery centers (or for people uncomfortable configuring and buying online, they should have a kiosk on site that they can help you through the ordering process...Ford sees an order come through a Kiosk and the Dealer gets a kickback for the assist).

You buy your vehicle direct from Ford. Ford ships it to the dealer, who adds any pre-negotiated dealer add-ons and makes sure the vehicle is ready/configured, and then you pick it up.

Advertising rebates should disappear, as Radio/TV/Print can't support the industry the way it used to (due to streaming and social media), but for each vehicle delivered the dealer gets a flat rate from the Manufacturer.

The advantage to Dealers? No more cut throat sales tactics needed, no more stress and no negotiating on new vehicles. They make their money as a normal business for service/parts, used cars, and delivery.

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[Whiskey]

In the past, the market has always responded to the consumer. Shoot, nowadays you don’t even have to go to the grocery store to get your groceries. Amazon delivers almost anything you desire, no more Montgomery Wards, Sears or K-Marts. In due time there may not be the dealerships as we know them today. Way too much overhead IMO.

 

[sotek2345]

Its always either A or B with us in this country, for some reason it cant ever be a compromise lmao......

Dealers would have a product to sell, in-stock vehicles with Market Adjustment. They could also sell extended plans, accessories, service contracts, "Nitro filled tires" that garbage "protection package" or that fake alarm....... the difference would be that the dealer would not be able to add any of that crap to a factory ordered vehicle without the customers approval.... it's really not that hard.

The majority of people are unwilling to wait 3-4 months for a car, the dealers would be fine and those of us willing to wait would get what we need.

BTW, Ford already does this with Overseas Military Customers, my first Ford Escort ZX2 was purchased overseas and delivered to a dealer of my choice all paperwork was sent to Ford directly including loan docs.... so again, it's about compromise and NOT ONE OR THE OTHER

To do what you are suggesting, state laws would need to change. Right now Ford is not allowed to dictate that..

 

[AgieF150]

12000 miles / 20 miles per gallon times $3.50 a gallon if you can find that price is 3 times what you claim???? And I got a feeling it’s gonna get worse.

electric is not free.

 

[Whiskey]

electric is not free.

Is at my cabin and they actually pay me for what I produce

 

[AgieF150]

Is at my cabin and they actually pay me for what I produce

not everyone is lucky like you ?

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Is at my cabin and they actually pay me for what I produce

And yet every time you charge, a carbon-fired generator, somewhere, fires up to level the grid, so we all charge using carbon fuel, no matter whether or not we have solar panels. I have 32kw of solar panels at my farm, am net metered, produce about double our usage and make about $14k per year in cash plus $12k in SREC sales - so solar is a home run for us. Despite that, it is a fallacy to say that I charge my Tesla with solar or that my driving is free. Folks who say this do not understand renewable energy economics.

The fact is that solar and EV driving are separate and completely unrelated decisions. When I charge my EV, I am using energy that my grid-connected net-metered panel system would otherwise be putting out to the grid. So my cost of EV charging is the opportunity cost of that reduced net meter benefit. I have a monitoring system (TED - The Energy Detective) that tracks this - but it remains a fact that no one except someone completely off the grid actually charges their EV using solar panels. Everyone else uses energy being generated elsewhere - and every time you charge, even with all those panels on the roof or in the field (I have both), a coal or natural gas generator (not hydro, wind, or other renewable) is powered up incrementally to level the grid. At some point this may change when we have industrial-level battery banks to provide electrical grid leveling, but for now it is nearly 100% done with carbon-fired generators.

 

[vandy1981]

And yet every time you charge, a carbon-fired generator, somewhere, fires up to level the grid, so we all charge using carbon fuel, no matter whether or not we have solar panels.

My area is 40% nuclear so I imagine that Homer Simpson turns a dial in Browns Ferry whenever I plug my car in.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

And yet every time you charge, a carbon-fired generator, somewhere, fires up to level the grid, so we all charge using carbon fuel, no matter whether or not we have solar panels. I have 32kw of solar panels at my farm, am net metered, produce about double our usage and make about $14k per year in cash plus $12k in SREC sales - so solar is a home run for us. Despite that, it is a fallacy to say that I charge my Tesla with solar or that my driving is free. Folks who say this do not understand renewable energy economics.

The fact is that solar and EV driving are separate and completely unrelated decisions. When I charge my EV, I am using energy that my grid-connected net-metered panel system would otherwise be putting out to the grid. So my cost of EV charging is the opportunity cost of that reduced net meter benefit. I have a monitoring system (TED - The Energy Detective) that tracks this - but it remains a fact that no one except someone completely off the grid actually charges their EV using solar panels. Everyone else uses energy being generated elsewhere - and every time you charge, even with all those panels on the roof or in the field (I have both), a coal or natural gas generator (not hydro, wind, or other renewable) is powered up incrementally to level the grid. At some point this may change when we have industrial-level battery banks to provide electrical grid leveling, but for now it is nearly 100% done with carbon-fired generators.

Factually incorrect. Electricity will always go the path of least resistance. Therefore, if you plug in your EV to charge at home on a sunny day and have solar panels, the electrical energy from said panels will charge your EV. Not because you’re the greenest person around, but simply because it’s the closest place for it to flow, and therefore has the least resistance. I do, however, agree with you on the financial aspect and that there’s no free charging when you could be selling the electricity to your utility.

 

[RavenYZF-R6]

Factually incorrect. Electricity will always go the path of least resistance. Therefore, if you plug in your EV to charge at home on a sunny day and have solar panels, the electrical energy from said panels will charge your EV. Not because you’re the greenest person around, but simply because it’s the closest place for it to flow, and therefore has the least resistance. I do, however, agree with you on the financial aspect and that there’s no free charging when you could be selling the electricity to your utility.

Understand I know pretty much nothing about power but wouldn’t pushing it into a battery have more resistance than flowing back into a grid? Makes sense in my mind anyway ?.

 

[Whiskey]

Understand I know pretty much nothing about power but wouldn’t pushing it into a battery have more resistance than flowing back into a grid? Makes sense in my mind anyway ?.

Not pushing, batteries are pulling. Like Nick stated, path of least resistance.

 

[Whiskey]

The fact is that solar and EV driving are separate and completely unrelated decisions. When I charge my EV, I am using energy that my grid-connected net-metered panel system would otherwise be putting out to the grid.

Not in my case. I definitely would not purchase an EV without the solar system to charge the battery. One very important factor that most people don’t realize just yet is when the increase of electricity hits the consumer, and YES! It’s gonna happen. They are shutting down affordable, reliable power generating stations and constructing “Green”, “Sustainable” plants (unproven technologies) plus the cost to reinforce the grid due to the demands brought on by the EV’s. Some of us is gonna pay big time when that happens, NOT ME (nor Dave).

 

[Joe]

Factually incorrect. Electricity will always go the path of least resistance. Therefore, if you plug in your EV to charge at home on a sunny day and have solar panels, the electrical energy from said panels will charge your EV. Not because you’re the greenest person around, but simply because it’s the closest place for it to flow, and therefore has the least resistance. I do, however, agree with you on the financial aspect and that there’s no free charging when you could be selling the electricity to your utility.

Not for most people with solar. I have panels, and my panels do NOT power my house - they get fed into the grid and my bill gets reduced accordingly. I still get all my power from the grid, NOT my panels.

For instance, if my neighborhood loses power, in the middle of the day, my house loses power because I do not power my house from my panels.

If you're completely off-grid and just charging a battery pack with your panels then yeah, you're good. But most people aren't doing that because of the cost.

You should be careful with your "factually incorrect" statements.

 

[Whiskey]

Not for most people with solar. I have panels, and my panels do NOT power my house - they get fed into the grid and my bill gets reduced accordingly. I still get all my power from the grid, NOT my panels.

For instance, if my neighborhood loses power, in the middle of the day, my house loses power because I do not power my house from my panels.

If you're completely off-grid and just charging a battery pack with your panels then yeah, you're good. But most people aren't doing that because of the cost.

You should be careful with your "factually incorrect" statements.

Not to jump in on your discussion with Nick but, I’m very interested why you would invest in solar and NOT utilize the power that it generates for your own use. This is a very interesting concept you got there. I will have to say most people don’t do what your doing, as a matter of fact your the first I’ve ever heard of doing that. So, your not the norm.

 

[Viper GTS]

Not to jump in on your discussion with Nick but, I’m very interested why you would invest in solar and NOT utilize the power that it generates for your own use. This is a very interesting concept you got there. I will have to say most people don’t do what your doing, as a matter of fact your the first I’ve ever heard of doing that. So, your not the norm.

Grid tied solar is absolutely the norm. This is how virtually every residential PV system works.

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