Ford's epic Lightning bait-and-switch is complete (the official "I'm out" thread).

[Platinum Peasant]

I can tell you that their surveys are ONLY for actual owner with experience over a period of time. Yes, first year is included, but also multiple years.

Unfortunately this is not always the case. CR tends to lean heavy on initial impressions of new owners and will report reliability on a vehicle even if they get less than 100 responses. It’s why you have instances where an automaker like Audi jumped from 24th to 8th in reliability (you’d have to shoot me before I spent money on an Audi). Even CR admitted they are reporting based on less less responses. That’s why what actual owners of these vehicles are saying is worth 10x more than CR. I don’t even like Tesla and have always been a Ford guy, but if I was buying an EV, I’d look at Tesla first for the reliability and experience they have with them.

I’ve had CR reach out to me 3 times, for my 18’ and two of my 21’ F150’s. I can tell you from personal experience too, they don’t follow up even though I listed a lot of initial problems with my first 2021 F150.

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[stimpy]

Huh? As a CR member for 40+ years, I can tell you that their surveys are ONLY for actual owner with experience over a period of time. Yes, first year is included, but also multiple years. They track the entire first five years service experience in their database for every model of car sold in the US, longer for some. There is a lot to criticize in CR's methodology, but it isn't true that they are asking owners to predict anything - their survey asks very specific questions about automotive systems and issues, requiring owners to provide examples - and it is entirely experience/incident based, not predicting anything. Tesla does NOT make a reliable EV by a very long stretch. Mine have been abysmal from a repair perspective. My MX is going in this week for the fourth time in a year. I've NEVER had a car with that level of control over my life. Still love it, but would never own one out of warranty. My many Ford, however, and other marques, have been far more reliable.

I agree with you on the MX, my wife’s has had several issues over the last 2 years. However, Tesla service has been good and everything has been covered under warranty. My MS on the other hand hasn’t had any issues in 2.5 years.

 

[stimpy]

It certainly is good for that especially with a Mediterranean Veggie sandwich from Panera. Takes two hands or it comes apart.

GM's Cruise, which tops Tesla in the assisted driving software, does it better as it has camera watching you vs. having to turn the wheel every 30 secs with the Tesla.

Tesla’s Autopilot is nearly perfect on the Highway, so can’t imagine GM’s product really being better.

However, Tesla is at least 5 years ahead with FSB Beta. I’ve been using it for months and it literally drives itself 90% of the time. There are still bugs so I’m always ready to take control, however with every update it handles more scenarios appropriately.

 

[EaglesPDX]

People who actually own the Mach E directly contradict your opinion.

Apparently not based on the CR and every other auto media outlet.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Tesla’s Autopilot is nearly perfect on the Highway, so can’t imagine GM’s product really being better.

"Cadillac's Super Cruise Outperforms Other Driving Assistance Systems. Other automakers close in on Tesla's Autopilot, now a distant second, in Consumer Reports' new ratings of 17 systems."

Teslas don't even have blind spot alert, rear cross traffic alert.

 

[stimpy]

"Cadillac's Super Cruise Outperforms Other Driving Assistance Systems. Other automakers close in on Tesla's Autopilot, now a distant second, in Consumer Reports' new ratings of 17 systems."

Teslas don't even have blind spot alert, rear cross traffic alert.

My Tesla gives me a full 360 degree visualization of traffic around the car, which for me is better than whatever GM has. There is both an visual and audible alert if I try to change lanes and there is a car in my blind spot. However, because I can see the car on my driver display, I’m not going to initiate that lane change. When I’m driving on Autopilot, it does lane changes automatically, so so I’d say Tesla is still better, by a large margin. Rear cross traffic alert is also unnecessary because I have a full view from 3 cameras when I’m in reverse and it will alert if I get too close to something.

 

[Platinum Peasant]

Apparently not based on the CR and every other auto media outlet.

Sorry, that’s just not true. Like I said before, real owners aren’t experiencing what you are trying to sell about the mach-e. You willingly ignored all the owner examples I provided before because they don’t fit your narrative. Those same media outlets are the ones who highlight the cluster that Ford is with new vehicles. Still waiting on the promised bluecruise like these guys are:

https://www.cars.com/articles/one-year-in-still-no-bluecruise-for-our-f-150-445785/

Just proves what I’ve been saying before. Ford sucks with software and that’s why they are behind Tesla in overall EV reliability. They can’t even get OTA updates going right on their regular vehicles but miraculously is the most reliable EV maker 1 year in vs Tesla? ?

 

[Platinum Peasant]

My Tesla gives me a full 360 degree visualization of traffic around the car, which for me is better than whatever GM has. There is both an visual and audible alert if I try to change lanes and there is a car in my blind spot. However, because I can see the car on my driver display, I’m not going to initiate that lane change. When I’m driving on Autopilot, it does lane changes automatically, so so I’d say Tesla is still better, by a large margin. Rear cross traffic alert is also unnecessary because I have a full view from 3 cameras when I’m in reverse and it will alert if I get too close to something.

I wish Ford would finally catch up in that arena too. The ability to see your cameras at speed and record them while moving and while away from the car is priceless. I wholeheartedly wish they’d steal these features.

 

[FordLightning]

Unfortunately this is not always the case. CR tends to lean heavy on initial impressions of new owners and will report reliability on a vehicle even if they get less than 100 responses. It’s why you have instances where an automaker like Audi jumped from 24th to 8th in reliability (you’d have to shoot me before I spent money on an Audi). Even CR admitted they are reporting based on less less responses. That’s why what actual owners of these vehicles are saying is worth 10x more than CR. I don’t even like Tesla and have always been a Ford guy, but if I was buying an EV, I’d look at Tesla first for the reliability and experience they have with them.

I’ve had CR reach out to me 3 times, for my 18’ and two of my 21’ F150’s. I can tell you from personal experience too, they don’t follow up even though I listed a lot of initial problems with my first 2021 F150.

CR is useless, they pretend to be experts in everything but are masters of none.

 

[Platinum Peasant]

CR is useless, they pretend to be experts in everything but are masters of none.

Exactly ?? I don’t take them seriously.

 

[EaglesPDX]

My Tesla gives me a full 360 degree visualization of traffic around the car,

It doesn't as the car can't see the front out about two feet (you can scrape the front on the curb while the car says you a foot away).

Same true out the back as cars are in the blind spot before the graphic shows them.

Tesla has tried to overcome with two recent updates, activating the side cams in reverse and on when turn signal is initiated (to try and make up for lack of blind spot alert).

And those helped.

Why Tesla has not upgraded the hardware to provide real blind spot alert, rear cross traffic alert and 360 view is a puzzle, well not really, profits and Musk never admitting he was wrong.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Like I said before

We know what you said, and a lot of actual data has been provided proving your statements wrong.

Ford's MachE, a new EV, beats all Teslas in reliability per the best data available, so to the question will Ford's second EV, the F150, be good out of the gate, Ford has answered the question.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Might be good to close this thread. It was started by a non-buyer claiming he's "out" when he was never 'in" and promoted by another non-buyer who just repeats a proven false premise.

 

[FordLightningMan]

My response to all of these points over the past 2 pages:

1) My Tesla has zero issues. I'm a ridiculously small sample size, but no need to go to repair center at all. Never owned Mach-E, so can't comment on its reliability.

2) Tesla autopilot is great on highways, except the wheel doesn't seem to register my hands, so I annoyingly have to constantly spin the scroll wheels to not disengage.

3) FSD beta is very much a beta. The promise is incredible, but as of today I won't use it with any passengers in the car, for safety concerns. Every drive I use it I am amazed 98% of the time, then it tries to kill me. 98% isn't good enough for self driving, but I'm hopeful all the feedback I'm sending helps fix the bugs.

 

[stimpy]

It doesn't as the car can't see the front out about two feet (you can scrape the front on the curb while the car says you a foot away).

Same true out the back as cars are in the blind spot before the graphic shows them.

Tesla has tried to overcome with two recent updates, activating the side cams in reverse and on when turn signal is initiated (to try and make up for lack of blind spot alert).

And those helped.

Why Tesla has not upgraded the hardware to provide real blind spot alert, rear cross traffic alert and 360 view is a puzzle, well not really, profits and Musk never admitting he was wrong.

Edited just to say, you probably weren't talking about me and that I'm by no means anti-ford as some are and I'm also not anti-tesla. I've owned 3 fords over the last 25 years and I loved them all (83 Bronco, 2000 Explorer and 2013 f-150).

You are right, this thread isn't really an "I'm out" thread anymore. I'm not sure if I was one of those you referenced above, but you are correct if you were, as I was never out. I'm actually all in on the Lightning and I have the number one reservation at Granger (reserved about 30 after they opened). I plan on keeping both my Tesla and Lightning, one for fun summer driving and the other to tow my boat to the lake and some winter driving in the snow. I'm not going to say that Tesla is better than any other car out there, just that I haven't had any issues and I like driving it.

About the blind spots, if you are talking about objects below the front and rear bumper then yes, there will be a blind spot as the sensors can't see what is right below them. I have scrapped the curb coming into a parking space a little farther than I should have, but that's on me as I had to drive pretty far over the curb to scrape under the front bumper.

However, I've found the sensors/cameras to be 100% accurate for objects in the line of sight of them. You can't expect them to detect something it can't see. Have for 2.5 years pulled into my garage within 3/4 of an inch of my motorcycle and the sensors spot on.

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