Invited After Transferring to ZEV State Dealer

[jfried]

A reservation does...ergo the term RESERVE.

Rivian is 20" shorter with same tow capacity so that's another plus.

Yes, and you've reserved one so will be invited to place your order before the general public who didn't.

The Rivian and Lightning are two very different trucks. There's nothing wrong with preferring one to the other. I think there was analysis done on reservation holders for the lightning which found that the vast majority of people who placed a reservation had never owned a pickup before. Personally, I think the Rivian is actually better suited to "new pickup" people than the Lightning -- it's smaller, it's got more "fancy" storage.... but of course you're buying something that's more expensive, from a startup.

Rivian could be the next Tesla, or could be the next Fisker.

Sponsored

 

[jfried]

You would have a point if Ford had announced from the get go that reservation order was just one of several inputs to convert to order. Or if they had said, on 5/19, that they would later allow people with lots of prior purchases to skip line. That would’ve given everyone 7months to spend every last penny on Ford vehicles, leveling the playing field. According to you everyone that would’ve spent the money would’ve thus built a warm and cozy relationship with the dealer, and thus would’ve received a priority slot and an early invite.
But of course none of this happened because Ford was simply unprepared for the huge demand for the Lightning and only made these changes to the process after dealerships prodded them into it.
As to your equivocating about the definition of fairness: Fairness might not be easily defined, but its absence is noticed immediately. Hence all the valid complaints on this forum. Heck, any five year old will tell you that it’s not fair to skip line. No matter how much money you’ve previously spent.

If I recall, Ford never specified what the reservations actually meant. It's not like Ford lied to you; they just didn't do it how YOU expected. They did do it how many of their current buyers expected. They took the smallest possible deposit towards the car, and are using that, in conjunction with priority customers from dealers, and by state targets to allocate these cars.

I don't pretend to know when Ford came up with the exact approach they had taken to prioritization. I suspect that it was probably after all the resos came in so they could figure out what would be the best way to keep as many people, and as many important people, happy. While they may not have had the exact methodology decided at the time of the announcement, it wouldn't suprise me at all if the plan all along was to use reservations / timestamp as a factor, but not the be all-end-all.

Is it fair that there's a TSA pre-check line? Is it fair that there's an express lane in the grocery store? Is it fair that some 25 year old 9-5 worker who had time to watch the announcement and had quick fingers gets his truck over the executive who doesn't have time to deal with that, but who's spent $2m on Ford vehicles in the last 10 years? I'll tell you this much, If I was a loyal ford buyer and didn't beat every single car deal to death, and my dealership said "sorry, there's nothing we can do to help you get one of these trucks" -- I'd be PO'ed.

Heck, even if it is all unfair, it's not Ford's role to be the arbiter and enforcer of "fairness". They're out there to succeed as a company. When vehicles are scarce, putting them in the hands of the people who have the fastest fingers does very little to serve their actual businesses interests.

Heck, I'd go as far as suggesting that Ford shouldn't even treat the reservation list in a linear fashion... should be some randomization within say, the first few days, so that the people who weren't watching the announcement live aren't "treated unfairly".

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Outstanding, you’re admitting that the changes Ford made to the process resulted in fairness going out the window. We’re making progress here!
You further claim that these changes are in Ford’s best interest as a business, which takes us back to the beginning of our discussion. And is still wrong. As stated in my last post, if Ford was only interested in rewarding big spenders, and thought that doing so was in their best interest, they surely would have announced that as soon as reservations opened. In hopes that everyone was going to buy a brand new Ford just to increase their chances of an early invite, netting Ford extra millions. But of course they didn’t. So either these changes to the process were in their best interest but they didn’t implement them, or they were not in their best interest, and they did them anyway due to dealer pressure. I’d highly suspect it’s the latter. Otherwise Ford shareholders should be furious right now about all the money that Ford left on the table May-December.

 

[jfried]

Outstanding, you’re admitting that the changes Ford made to the process resulted in fairness going out the window. We’re making progress here!
You further claim that these changes are in Ford’s best interest as a business, which takes us back to the beginning of our discussion. And is still wrong. As stated in my last post, if Ford was only interested in rewarding big spenders, and thought that doing so was in their best interest, they surely would have announced that as soon as reservations opened. In hopes that everyone was going to buy a brand new Ford just to increase their chances of an early invite, netting Ford extra millions. But of course they didn’t. So either these changes to the process were in their best interest but they didn’t implement them, or they were not in their best interest, and they did them anyway due to dealer pressure. I’d highly suspect it’s the latter. Otherwise Ford shareholders should be furious right now about all the money that Ford left on the table May-December.

I have no idea what "changes" Ford made in the process. I don't work at Ford, and certainly not in the "lightning reservation department". I'm simply an outsider, who can realistically see that the plan, likely from the start, was to take some reservations, guage interest in the truck, and then figure out the best way to allocate those reservations while still adhering to corporate objectives.

Is the way they decided perfect? no, far from it... but simply going by timestamp is not the correct way either.

The Lightning is a mass-market vehicle, it would be very poorly publicly perceived if they came out and said "to buy a lightning you must buy an Ecosport too!"; especially in a market that was short on vehicles overall. People aren't into nonsensical spending, and certainly don't like being told "you need to have something you don't want, in order to have something you do." They want this vehicle to be accessible to everyone, and if their production plans come to fruition, it probably will be within a year of hitting the road.

The approach they came up with, go roughly in order of reservation, but let the dealers prioritize people who need, or really want the truck sooner. Those people are generally people who already have strong relationships with Ford, and should certainly be more frustrated that years of purchasing with dealerships speaks nothing towards priority over a guy infront of the computer who happened to be watching the news.

Serious question for you -- you think this was all because of "dealer pressure"... what leverage do you honestly believe dealers have over Ford??? It is generally not an adversarial relationship -- they are BUSINESS PARTNERS. Yes, dealers suggest things, but they do so because their the ones with their boots on the ground dealing with customers every day. The people at Ford are smart people too, they don't have to listen to suggestions if they don't want to.

That being said, you never answered my question. Is TSA pre-check fair? Express lane at the grocery store? HOV lanes? Letting people with Electric Vehicles use HOV lanes?

 

[vandy1981]

they surely would have announced that as soon as reservations opened. In hopes that everyone was going to buy a brand new Ford just to increase their chances of an early invite

That's a great idea! Every Ecosport purchase gets you closer to VIP status. Bonus points if you give the sales manager $1000 in Chili's gift cards.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Yes, and you've reserved one so will be invited to place your order before the general public who didn't.

But that is not the case, per Ford 15,000 people per year can jump the line and if I'm at the "wrong" dealer, I'll never get one.

 

[PA Lightning]

But that is not the case, per Ford 15,000 people per year can jump the line and if I'm at the "wrong" dealer, I'll never get one.

Aren't Eagles fans used to disappointment?

 

[TaxmanHog]

But that is not the case, per Ford 15,000 people per year can jump the line and if I'm at the "wrong" dealer, I'll never get one.

Is it certain the prioritization policy would continue in MY23 and beyond?

Just my humble opinion, .... I'd think what was done for MY22 was all about preferred customers allowing them first crack at the introductory model year, afterward the remaining reservationists should be given consideration in time stamp order from the original pool. NO more repeats of priority lists.

 

[jfried]

But that is not the case, per Ford 15,000 people per year can jump the line and if I'm at the "wrong" dealer, I'll never get one.

I don't believe Ford has said anything about a "re-priorization" for MY23. They let dealers prioritize in excess of MY22 allocations, and have closed the reservation bank. Seems to me that the however many thousand orders that got priority will be it, followed by everyone else in something that resembles chronological order.

What I find interesting, is that most people on this forum knew about the dealer prioritization options. You'd think, if they really wanted the truck so bad, they'd call up their dealer and ask how they're handling it and if they can be prioritized.

 

[jfried]

Is it certain the prioritization policy would continue in MY23 and beyond?

Just my humble opinion, .... I'd think what was done for MY22 was all about preferred customers allowing them first crack at the introductory model year, afterward the remaining reservationists should be given consideration in time stamp order from the original pool. NO more repeats of priority lists.

To me, it doesn't make sense that there would be a re-prioritization given that the reservation bank is now closed.

Maybe dealers get another crack at nominating a few more for people's circumstances who may have changed, but I doubt they're going to let it speak for the entire MY23 allocation as they did the 22.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

I have no idea what "changes" Ford made in the process. I don't work at Ford, and certainly not in the "lightning reservation department". I'm simply an outsider, who can realistically see that the plan, likely from the start, was to take some reservations, guage interest in the truck, and then figure out the best way to allocate those reservations while still adhering to corporate objectives.

Is the way they decided perfect? no, far from it... but simply going by timestamp is not the correct way either.

The Lightning is a mass-market vehicle, it would be very poorly publicly perceived if they came out and said "to buy a lightning you must buy an Ecosport too!"; especially in a market that was short on vehicles overall. People aren't into nonsensical spending, and certainly don't like being told "you need to have something you don't want, in order to have something you do." They want this vehicle to be accessible to everyone, and if their production plans come to fruition, it probably will be within a year of hitting the road.

The approach they came up with, go roughly in order of reservation, but let the dealers prioritize people who need, or really want the truck sooner. Those people are generally people who already have strong relationships with Ford, and should certainly be more frustrated that years of purchasing with dealerships speaks nothing towards priority over a guy infront of the computer who happened to be watching the news.

Serious question for you -- you think this was all because of "dealer pressure"... what leverage do you honestly believe dealers have over Ford??? It is generally not an adversarial relationship -- they are BUSINESS PARTNERS. Yes, dealers suggest things, but they do so because their the ones with their boots on the ground dealing with customers every day. The people at Ford are smart people too, they don't have to listen to suggestions if they don't want to.

That being said, you never answered my question. Is TSA pre-check fair? Express lane at the grocery store? HOV lanes? Letting people with Electric Vehicles use HOV lanes?

The reason I didn’t answer the questions is that they are irrelevant to the discussion. Interesting that you used the Ferrari “pay to play” analogy earlier in support of your theory, yet act like you’ve never heard of a stranger idea now. And definitely strange that you claim to know exactly how Ford had all this planned out all along when neither of us work there and your guess is literally as good as mine. But hey, that’s exactly what these forums are for, free exchange of ideas. I’m enjoying it.

 

[vandy1981]

What I find interesting, is that most people on this forum knew about the dealer prioritization options. You'd think, if they really wanted the truck so bad, they'd call up their dealer and ask how they're handling it and if they can be prioritized.

I thought about it but didn't want to take the chance of alerting the dealer that they could reprioritize. I decided that it was more likely than not that I'd get screwed over if they knew about it.

Plus I didn't want to suffer the indignity of having to beg for the opportunity to drop $80K on a car.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

I don't believe Ford has said anything about a "re-priorization" for MY23. They let dealers prioritize in excess of MY22 allocations, and have closed the reservation bank. Seems to me that the however many thousand orders that got priority will be it, followed by everyone else in something that resembles chronological order.

What I find interesting, is that most people on this forum knew about the dealer prioritization options. You'd think, if they really wanted the truck so bad, they'd call up their dealer and ask how they're handling it and if they can be prioritized.

Well, I did just that back in December. Emailed the dealer to ask these questions. Never got a reply. Finally found out after the fact that they had prioritized five people ahead of me, knocking me back to sixth in line based on “total dollar value spent at dealership”. I don’t have any problem with them doing so, I’m getting the truck sooner or later either way, but I would have liked them to be open and honest with me at the time. And not to keep beating a dead horse, but Ford could have avoided these shenanigans by not giving in to the dealer lobby on prioritizations.

 

[jfried]

The reason I didn’t answer the questions is that they are irrelevant to the discussion. Interesting that you used the Ferrari “pay to play” analogy earlier in support of your theory, yet act like you’ve never heard of a stranger idea now. And definitely strange that you claim to know exactly how Ford had all this planned out all along when neither of us work there and your guess is literally as good as mine. But hey, that’s exactly what these forums are for, free exchange of ideas. I’m enjoying it.

I'm just trying to put myself in Ford's shoes. They sell millions of vehicles through the dealer network, to individual customers. They have thousands of customers that are extremely loyal, and who are very important to them, who's relationships are managed by the dealers. You're way better off to piss off somebody behind a computer than you are somebody who's been buying your hits, and maybe your not-so-hot vehicles for years.

If the ONLY motive for dealers "fighting for this" was so that they could auction off prioritizations... do you really think Ford would have played along?

With respect to Ferrari, they don't tell you that you need to buy a Mondial to "go along" with your brand new SF90 Stradale. There is no "direct proposition" to getting a special car. They use a closed-door approach to inviting people to buy the new cars. It's absolutely pay-to-play, and an elitist way of doing it, but it works for them being an elite brand. Ferrari isn't pursuing selling the most cars -- they're trying to make sure that their cars end up in the hands of "ferrari-people". There's a very distinct difference when you're playing with emotions and perceptions like Ferrari does.

Obviously, Ford is mass market, so that approach is just not feasible or realistic. That doesn't mean you can't still build in some aspiration, and reward your loyal clientele when you come out with something exciting.

That being said, it wouldn't suprise me if those priority slots had been "used" to help close a few ICE car deals.

 

[jfried]

Well, I did just that back in December. Emailed the dealer to ask these questions. Never got a reply. Finally found out after the fact that they had prioritized five people ahead of me, knocking me back to sixth in line based on “total dollar value spent at dealership”. I don’t have any problem with them doing so, I’m getting the truck sooner or later either way, but I would have liked them to be open and honest with me at the time. And not to keep beating a dead horse, but Ford could have avoided these shenanigans by not giving in to the dealer lobby on prioritizations.

Seems like a very fair and reasonable approach taken by the dealership. They should have told you that's what they're doing, but to take "personal relationship out" and make it about simply rewarding the people who help drive their business is a more than reasonable thing to do.

Those aren't shenanigans -- that -- or something similar to that is how a good / reputable dealer should allocate their prioritization.

Sponsored