Study Finds Greater Greenhouse Gas Reductions For EV Pickup Trucks Than Light-Duty Vehicles

[UNIKRN150]

Please. Most lithium is mined in Australia and Chile. Hardly third world countries. You mentioned Nevada, also not *quite* third world. But what we DO bless a lot of third world countries with is unregulated dirty fossil fuel extraction. The people suffering from the resulting pollution get nothing for it, all the profits go to their corrupt leaders, and of course to the large oil companies. Maybe that’s a better target for your righteous indignation. Buying an EV would help by reducing oil demand and thus reducing the incentive to drill and spoil poor countries.

Sure… so we shut down Oil & Gas production in the only country where that production is done under the scrutiny of the EPA, even though we can’t replace it with “Alternative Energy” YET! And buy our oil and gas from nations who hate us and couldn’t give a rat’s ass about “the environment”.

In my state, I get electricity primarily from Geothermal. And I can count on at least 5 days a year where I will suddenly find myself with NO Electricity. Be it from “rolling blackouts” or “Public Safety Shutdowns”.

AND… my $500.00+ a month power bill comes with a $75.00 FINE for “using too much energy”.

IN “AMERICA”!

There’s no question that we need to migrate from Fossil fuels for many reasons. But cutting our own economic throats BEFORE those alternatives are viable is insane.

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[LightningShow]

We're not shutting down oil & gas production. So, what's your argument again?

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Once again, the considerable length and breadth of your posts can’t hide the shallowness of your understanding how electricity works: electrical energy will always take the path of least resistance, for a home with solar panels and a plugged in low SOC EV on a sunny day that will always be the path from panels to inverter to breaker box to EVSE to EV battery. Look it up, it’s a fact!
So with regard to the issue at hand we can conclude that, yes, my rooftop solar really does charge my EV. The rest of your musings, while certainly interesting, are pointless to said issue. But thank you, as always, for contributing to the debate.

Semantics and self-congratulatory rationalization and confirmation bias. I'm sure you tell yourself, friends and family that you charge your EV with your solar panels. I have my solar panels and EVs and choose to not lie to myself and others. I also understand and teach economics and have VERY detailed analysis of the uses and production at my properties. The FACT is that when you charge your EV THAT electricity is NOT going back to the grid as it would otherwise do. That is your opportunity cost AND it is the opportunity cost to the grid. So when you draw from a source of power to do a thing with that power, whatever you use it for, and whatever you draw it from, you are "spending" power that would be offsetting a fossil burn somewhere. The converse is that your charging is burning fossil fuel. There is no free ride. Turning on a light bulb costs real money. Actual cash. Every. Single. Time. Unless you are completely off the grid.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Semantics and self-congratulatory rationalization and confirmation bias. I'm sure you tell yourself, friends and family that you charge your EV with your solar panels. I have my solar panels and EVs and choose to not lie to myself and others. I also understand and teach economics and have VERY detailed analysis of the uses and production at my properties. The FACT is that when you charge your EV THAT electricity is NOT going back to the grid as it would otherwise do. That is your opportunity cost AND it is the opportunity cost to the grid. So when you draw from a source of power to do a thing with that power, whatever you use it for, and whatever you draw it from, you are "spending" power that would be offsetting a fossil burn somewhere. The converse is that your charging is burning fossil fuel. There is no free ride. Turning on a light bulb costs real money. Actual cash. Every. Single. Time. Unless you are completely off the grid.

Careful, here’s a trick question, and yes, it’s about the part where you’re using the bold letters: you state that, when charging my EV, that electricity is not going back to the grid. So, where is it going?

 

[vandy1981]

Semantics and self-congratulatory rationalization and confirmation bias. I'm sure you tell yourself, friends and family that you charge your EV with your solar panels.

OMG, why does this have to be so controversial?

Let's assume there is a fixed demand for electricity. If @Nick Gerteis has a grid-connected solar panel that generates 1 kWh of energy, then the rest of grid needs to find 1 less kWh (actually more, if you factor in transmission losses). That 1 kWh would be subtracted from demand-based generation plants which are primarily driven by fossil fuels, unless you're lucky enough to live on a grid with significant hydro inputs.

Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

We're not shutting down oil & gas production. So, what's your argument again?

Are you serious? Have you paid, like zero attention to Dem party objectives and position statements in recent years? It is a gradual process, not overnight, but it is assuredly the objective of the left. And it is killing this country.

From the first link: "Biden has set a goal of eliminating pollution from fossil fuel in the power sector by 2035 and from the U.S. economy overall by 2050"

https://www.khou.com/article/news/n...fort/507-1313817c-3edc-4ab4-8af8-89903f4ee307

https://www.npr.org/sections/presid...il-and-gas-leasing-on-public-lands-and-waters

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/explainer-biden-halting-federal-oil-gas-sales-76631021

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/23/politics/biden-fracking-fact-check/index.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/biden-suspends-oil-and-gas-drilling-in-series-of.html

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/mar/14/new-drilling-permits-plummet-85-despite-pressure-b/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/climate/carbon-biden-drilling-climate.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/bid...ew-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html


Greenpeace sums it up - yes they do want it end:

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/joe-biden-marks-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-the-oil-industry/

 

[VTbuckeye]

Is it better to have grid tied solar providing power and charging an EV than to have NO solar and charge the EV? Absolutely. Would it be even better to have grid tied solar providing power that does not have to go to charge the EV. Yes, assuming that there is not an ICE replacing what the EV would have done.

ICE and Grid power<ice and solar<EV and grid<EV grid tied solar<<No EV, no ice grid tied solar. I know which one is not going to happen, so what is the best alternative?

Yes when you start using power (grid or grid tied solar) something somewhere else has to happen. If you would not have otherwise installed the grid tied solar but for the EV use then is your charging a drain on the system as a whole or just less of a benefit?

Less thinking and more working ... Later.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

OMG, why does this have to be so controversial?

Let's assume there is a fixed demand for electricity. If @Nick Gerteis has a grid-connected solar panel that generates 1 kWh of energy, then the rest of grid needs to find 1 less kWh (actually more, if you factor in transmission losses). That 1 kWh would be subtracted from demand-based generation plants which are primarily driven by fossil fuels, unless you're lucky enough to live on a grid with significant hydro inputs.

Seems pretty simple to me.

100% correct. But that's not the point. You MAKE my point. Solar generation and EV driving are two, separate and completely unrelated things. People with both (like myself) have a tendency to pontificate and self-congratulate, feel all smug about their carbon footprints. When in that mode, I can go even further, claiming that my farm's oyster production makes my family a giant carbon sink because oyster shells are MADE of carbon. We've got that plastered all over the side of our "Eco-diesel" refrigerated delivery trucks and in our organic farm's website, which also features our LEED buildings and pictures of our solar panels - because people like to FEEL that their purchases and consumption are making the world a better place. But these folks typically refuse to acknowledge that the two (EV driving and solar panel power production) do not relate in any way in terms of the buy/connect analysis for panels or the buy/drive analysis for EVs. It's all "look at me", so my "coal powered" sticker on my EV and my graduate economics lesson on this topic calls them out on it - or sometimes informs those who have been living with the delusion - although most remain obsessively attached to the mythology that got them this far.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

100% correct. But that's not the point. You MAKE my point. Solar generation and EV driving are two, separate and completely unrelated things. People with both (like myself) have a tendency to pontificate and self-congratulate, feel all smug about their carbon footprints. When in that mode, I can go even further, claiming that my farm's oyster production makes my family a giant carbon sink because oyster shells are MADE of carbon. We've got that plastered all over the side of our "Eco-diesel" refrigerated delivery trucks and in our organic farm's website, which also features our LEED buildings and pictures of our solar panels - because people like to FEEL that their purchases and consumption are making the world a better place. But these folks typically refuse to acknowledge that the two (EV driving and solar panel power production) do not relate in any way in terms of the buy/connect analysis for panels or the buy/drive analysis for EVs. It's all "look at me", so my "coal powered" sticker on my EV and my graduate economics lesson on this topic calls them out on it - or sometimes informs those who have been living with the delusion - although most remain obsessively attached to the mythology that got them this far.

All that typing, but you’re still unable to answer my simple question from earlier. I think I know why….

 

[Ruination]

Definitely some smog in this thread.

I don't know why you are bringing cost into it Dave but I doubt you have ever made an unsound fiscal decision.

I don't know what you get for your excess electricity but mine is like 25% of what is charged. Opportunity cost would say use it all and putting anything back into the grid is wasteful.

 

[vandy1981]

Definitely some smog in this thread.

I agree. The carbon footprint of this thread is starting to make me feel guilty.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

I think someone definitely owes us a few dozen oysters ? over all this back and forth. Yes, I’ll bring beer and hot sauce.

 

[vandy1981]

100% correct. But that's not the point. You MAKE my point. Solar generation and EV driving are two, separate and completely unrelated things. People with both (like myself) have a tendency to pontificate and self-congratulate, feel all smug about their carbon footprints. When in that mode, I can go even further, claiming that my farm's oyster production makes my family a giant carbon sink because oyster shells are MADE of carbon. We've got that plastered all over the side of our "Eco-diesel" refrigerated delivery trucks and in our organic farm's website, which also features our LEED buildings and pictures of our solar panels - because people like to FEEL that their purchases and consumption are making the world a better place. But these folks typically refuse to acknowledge that the two (EV driving and solar panel power production) do not relate in any way in terms of the buy/connect analysis for panels or the buy/drive analysis for EVs. It's all "look at me", so my "coal powered" sticker on my EV and my graduate economics lesson on this topic calls them out on it - or sometimes informs those who have been living with the delusion - although most remain obsessively attached to the mythology that got them this far.

This is a pretty cynical take on the world, and that's coming from a Millennial's perspective.

If someone installs a solar array designed to offset their EV's consumption, I would forgive them for saying their EV is powered by solar.

 

[LightningShow]

Are you serious? Have you paid, like zero attention to Dem party objectives and position statements in recent years? It is a gradual process, not overnight, but it is assuredly the objective of the left. And it is killing this country.

From the first link: "Biden has set a goal of eliminating pollution from fossil fuel in the power sector by 2035 and from the U.S. economy overall by 2050"

https://www.khou.com/article/news/n...fort/507-1313817c-3edc-4ab4-8af8-89903f4ee307

https://www.npr.org/sections/presid...il-and-gas-leasing-on-public-lands-and-waters

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/explainer-biden-halting-federal-oil-gas-sales-76631021

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/23/politics/biden-fracking-fact-check/index.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/biden-suspends-oil-and-gas-drilling-in-series-of.html

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/mar/14/new-drilling-permits-plummet-85-despite-pressure-b/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/climate/carbon-biden-drilling-climate.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/bid...ew-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html


Greenpeace sums it up - yes they do want it end:

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/joe-biden-marks-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-the-oil-industry/

Yes, I'm serious. Domestic oil production was up nearly 150% from 2008 to 2019. In 2019 domestic production was at an all time high and certainly would have continued that trend if it wasn't for the pandemic. Don't listen to the hype.

 

[ShirBlackspots]

Are you serious? Have you paid, like zero attention to Dem party objectives and position statements in recent years? It is a gradual process, not overnight, but it is assuredly the objective of the left. And it is killing this country.

From the first link: "Biden has set a goal of eliminating pollution from fossil fuel in the power sector by 2035 and from the U.S. economy overall by 2050"

https://www.khou.com/article/news/n...fort/507-1313817c-3edc-4ab4-8af8-89903f4ee307

https://www.npr.org/sections/presid...il-and-gas-leasing-on-public-lands-and-waters

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/explainer-biden-halting-federal-oil-gas-sales-76631021

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/23/politics/biden-fracking-fact-check/index.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/biden-suspends-oil-and-gas-drilling-in-series-of.html

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/mar/14/new-drilling-permits-plummet-85-despite-pressure-b/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/climate/carbon-biden-drilling-climate.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/bid...ew-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html


Greenpeace sums it up - yes they do want it end:

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/joe-biden-marks-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-the-oil-industry/

I think you should look at official numbers from the EIA instead of believing all of the propaganda from the left and right:
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M

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