The Levine Twitter parade continues: 134 kW @ 65% SOC

[vandy1981]

I think this is the first real-world data that we've gotten about the charging curve. This is an ER model based on back-calculating the numbers on the screen (4.8520/.04=121.3)

It's only one data point, but 134 kW is pretty good at 65% state of charge. The Rivian R1T pulled 135 kW at the same state of charge in a recent charging test, albeit probably in colder ambient temps.

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[Vorador]

I think this is the first real-world data that we've gotten about the charging curve. This is an ER model based on back-calculating the numbers on the screen (4.8520/.04=121.3)

It's only one data point, but 134 kW is pretty good at 65% state of charge. The Rivian R1T pulled 135 kW at the same state of charge in a recent charging test, albeit probably in colder ambient temps.

Glad to see they are using a more aggressive charge rate than the Mach E. 134 kW is definitely pretty good. With the latest update, Rivian tops out at 225 kW now, so their curve at 65% should be better now.

 

[gorwell]

Definitely a first.

But, to be proud of 134kW is about 2 years dated and when thinking about efficient cars.

They are getting outclassed heavily by Hyundai, Tesla, Rivian to name a few.

Rivian @ ~60% is when it starts winding down and that was before a recent update. Rivian averages ~180kW from 0-60% ... While F150L maxes out at 150kW. And, if the same as Mach-e, it'll do that for a short period at the start of charging.

Based on charge times published, the F150L charge speed averages averages:

The Extended range averages about 135kW from 15-80%
The standard range is just at 95kW from 15-80%. What year is it, am I driving a Leaf?

Ford just cannot compete here and came out dated for the F150L Extended, and managed to reverse progress for the F150 Standard with a max of only 125kW. Honestly, it's pathetic for any car at this stage in EV development.


For comparison the "old" pre-200kW+ update from Rivian did 163kW average from 15-80%.

 

[Kev12345]

That's still too slow.

 

[F150ROD]

Definitely a first.

But, to be proud of 134kW is about 2 years dated and when thinking about efficient cars.

They are getting outclassed heavily by Hyundai, Tesla, Rivian to name a few.

Rivian @ ~60% is when it starts winding down and that was before a recent update. Rivian averages ~180kW from 0-60% ... While F150L maxes out at 150kW. And, if the same as Mach-e, it'll do that for a short period at the start of charging.

Based on charge times published, the F150L charge speed averages averages:

The Extended range averages about 135kW from 15-80%
The standard range is just at 95kW from 15-80%. What year is it, am I driving a Leaf?

Ford just cannot compete here and came out dated for the F150L Extended, and managed to reverse progress for the F150 Standard with a max of only 125kW. Honestly, it's pathetic for any car at this stage in EV development.


For comparison the "old" pre-200kW+ update from Rivian did 163kW average from 15-80%.

It’s pathetic, garbage and something that can be fixed with a software update. Ford is being cautious until they get more data from real world driving.

Not even worried about it.

 

[Trick]

On the state of charge Tom charged a lucid air on a 350 charger and then again on a 150. Total charge times were about the same. 350 peaked higher but the 150 held a more constant curve. Looks like it has to do with heat.

 

[Kev12345]

Max tow has extra cooling. Will it charge quicker?

 

[gorwell]

can be fixed with a software update. Ford is being cautious until they get more data from real world driving.

You cannot fix peak charging w/ a software fix that's hardware. You can play w/ the charging curves w/ software.

W/ charging you would lead with what the truck can do. Rivian has stated they can theatrically do 215kW peak.

Ford has stated their peak times are 120kW and 155kW:

This is actually not much different than the Mach-e: Select does 115kW, and all other does 150kW... Let me know when you expect Mach-e to improve that peak...


https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...ightning-charging-frequently-asked-questions/

Can I charge at a 350kW charge station?
Yes. Most Electrify America DC fast chargers can deliver up to 350kW of power, but your Ford all-electric vehicle will only accept up to 120kW or 155kW, depending on if you have the standard-range or extended-range battery, respectively.

What is the charging power for the F-150 Lightning?
The extended-range F-150 Lightning vehicles are both alternating current (AC) and DC adaptable with a 19.2kW onboard charger and are designed to charge quickly on a DC fast charger, allowing a controlled boost up to 155kW. The standard-range F-150 Lightning vehicles are also AC and DC adaptable with an 11.3 kW onboard charger and are designed to charge quickly on a DC fast charger, allowing controlled boost up to 120kW

 

[beatle]

It's bizarre that such a large battery is still limited to 150kw max. It's true that area under the curve is most important, but a 131kwh battery charging at 150kw is only 1.14C.

Average C rate from 15-80% on my P85D is about the same peak C as the Lightning, and that's after it was nerfed by Tesla a few years ago.

 

[beatle]

You cannot fix peak charging w/ a software fix that's hardware. You can play w/ the charging curves.

Sure you can, as long as you're not already limited by the DCFC in the first place. 150kw is already well below the peak charge rates of many popular CCS chargers.

You can also reduce the charge rate. Just ask any Tesla owner from 2012-2015 or so.

 

[gorwell]

Sure you can, as long as you're not already limited by the DCFC in the first place.

You can, if there is hardware designed to achieve those peaks... Zero reason to believe so w/ Ford.

 

[Vorador]

Sure you can, as long as you're not already limited by the DCFC in the first place. 150kw is already well below the peak charge rates of many popular CCS chargers.

You can also reduce the charge rate. Just ask any Tesla owner from 2012-2015 or so.

Majority of EA stations around me are mostly 150 kw chargers with 1 350 kw charger.

 

[vandy1981]

But, to be proud of 134kW is about 2 years dated and when thinking about efficient cars.

Area under the (charging) curve is much more important than peak charging speeds. InsideEVs showed a 41 minute 10-90% time on the R1T. This is identical to the 10-90% time promised by Ford for the Lightning ER. We have yet to see independent charging tests, so we'll see how accurate this is. I'm hopeful that they will improve charging curves with iterative software updates or by unlocking 155+ kW capability, but I'd be satisfied even if they don't.

CCS1 maxes out at 200 kW with a 400V architecture. The only way to get more power is with proprietary networks (e.g. Supercharger or Rivian Adventure Network) or from an 800 volt system. It probably didn't make sense for the 1st Gen Lightning development cycle since 800V components are more expensive and scarce than 400v components currently. They would have had to design bespoke components that would have made the Lightning more expensive and more prone to development/supply delays.

The Hummer EV has 800v capability but costs a lot more than the Lightning and are not being built at any sort of scale. The more affordable Silverado EV trims won't be here for at least 2 years. Ford will probably be previewing their 2nd gen EV platforms by then and I would be shocked if they didn't have 800v capability.

 

[F150ROD]

You can, if there is hardware designed to achieve those peaks... Zero reason to believe so w/ Ford.

Why is there zero reason?

 

[gorwell]

Why is there zero reason?

(!) Mach-e has had 150kW peak charging for 2 years, has that gotten any better? The charging curve did, but it's still slow. And, the charging curve only got better after 80% which isn't (shouldn't be) a common use-case.

Plus, Mach-e only peaks at it's 150kW between like 3-6% state of charge. It's 150kw Peak in name only.

Look at where the Mach-e sits for charging speeds, it's the lowest average between 10-80%. It's even slower than the ID4 which is known for being slow and it only peaks at ~125kW

Ford clearly is underdeveloped in charging tech.

The Lightning charging is an improvement over the Mach-e, but it still trails it's competitors.

(2) The fact that they are clearly stating their peak charges in documentation.


Their battery chem, cooling, or wires cannot sustain anything more.

https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...ightning-charging-frequently-asked-questions/

Can I charge at a 350kW charge station?
Yes. Most Electrify America DC fast chargers can deliver up to 350kW of power, but your Ford all-electric vehicle will only accept up to 120kW or 155kW, depending on if you have the standard-range or extended-range battery, respectively.

What is the charging power for the F-150 Lightning?
The extended-range F-150 Lightning vehicles are both alternating current (AC) and DC adaptable with a 19.2kW onboard charger and are designed to charge quickly on a DC fast charger, allowing a controlled boost up to 155kW. The standard-range F-150 Lightning vehicles are also AC and DC adaptable with an 11.3 kW onboard charger and are designed to charge quickly on a DC fast charger, allowing controlled boost up to 120kW