So...reserved 2 hours in...with reservation number...I'm assuming SOL on price protection?

[Blainestang]

I say different based on how I did research in reserving with a dealer that gets high allocations.

Ford may have taken the reservation but the dealer choice is yours.

My choice of dealers depended on the amount of trucks, fleet, and other specialty vehicles (Raptor, Roush, etc) sold and called many dealer on the first day of launch.

Found one dealer 2 counties away that had the highest number of special order allocations YTD.

I went with the the further dealer as I knew they would get more Lightning allocations.

2nd after launch I placed my reservation.

Sure enough it paid off because my dealer 2 counties away received 50+ Lightning allocations and I was one of them.

Had I chosen my nearby small time dealer who received 3 allocations, I would still be waiting to order.

It's all about the dealer you choose - so choose wisely.

There are several more variables than just "which dealer will get the most allocations", though.

They might have more allocations AND more reservations, in which case you might be in the same boat (waiting).

OR they might have more allocations, but they also have a disproportionate number of EARLY reservation holders.

It worked out for you and you made the right choice, but there are a lot of variables that just aren't reasonable to know, unless you can get a bunch of dealers to tell you how many reservations they have AND where you'll be in THEIR line AND estimate their allocations, it's really tough to do more than make an educated guess.

Sponsored

 

[bobinmi]

I say different based on how I did research in reserving with a dealer that gets high allocations.

Ford may have taken the reservation but the dealer choice is yours.

My choice of dealers depended on the amount of trucks, fleet, and other specialty vehicles (Raptor, Roush, etc) sold and called many dealer on the first day of launch.

Found one dealer 2 counties away that had the highest number of special order allocations YTD.

I went with the the further dealer as I knew they would get more Lightning allocations.

2nd after launch I placed my reservation.

Sure enough it paid off because my dealer 2 counties away received 50+ Lightning allocations and I was one of them.

Had I chosen my nearby small time dealer who received 3 allocations, I would still be waiting to order.

It's all about the dealer you choose - so choose wisely.

very good information for future reference. thanks for your input.

 

[cvalue13]

I’ll admit to the privilege of already having the truck and what that affords me in terms of investment into the current drama. I’m lucky, and I feel a lot of your various frustrations.

But the trend here about Ford’s price increases being … evil? … seems premature and maybe not well thought out.

On a “normal” year, how much might pricing increase year-over-year? Whatever your answer, put that % in one bucket.

Next, note that MY23 vehicles come standard with additional options (eg heated seats), some of which even result in additional range. The costs of the additional options and improvements, put in a second bucket.

Then there’s lithium price increases. Put that % in your fourth bucket.

Then, there’s general inflation that has occurred since the MY22 prices were set, which inflation has been substantial. Put that % in your sixth bucket.

Then finally, fine, if you must, have a seventh bucket which is Ford simply charging more for the Lightning.

Of those seven buckets, it’s hard for me to be as confident as some others here that the only bucket in play is the seventh bucket. Has anyone really done the maths on the first six buckets?

In any event, how much exactly Ford is giving the Lightning MY23 pricing a squeeze can’t really be evaluated u til Ford releases their ICE F150 pricing for MY23.

We’ll see

 

[meazer]

And not for nothing even if they are charging more because they can what is the problem with that? Go on ebay and search 2022 f150 Lightning and see what they are going for. Why should ford sit back and let people pay 80k for an ER Lariat so they can sell it on ebay for 100K. For the people that say well I reserved one I reserved a cybertruck also and I guarantee you I wont be getting it for the price they told me when I reserved it.

 

[lancersrock]

I say different based on how I did research in reserving with a dealer that gets high allocations.

Ford may have taken the reservation but the dealer choice is yours.

My choice of dealers depended on the amount of trucks, fleet, and other specialty vehicles (Raptor, Roush, etc) sold and called many dealer on the first day of launch.

Found one dealer 2 counties away that had the highest number of special order allocations YTD.

I went with the the further dealer as I knew they would get more Lightning allocations.

2nd after launch I placed my reservation.

Sure enough it paid off because my dealer 2 counties away received 50+ Lightning allocations and I was one of them.

Had I chosen my nearby small time dealer who received 3 allocations, I would still be waiting to order.

It's all about the dealer you choose - so choose wisely.

I wish it were that easy. I reserved at the number one f series dealer in the country (have moved since due to other reasons) but they only got 5 2022 models due to being in the midwest. The fact is Ford prioritized ZEV states and left those of us in the states who buy more trucks out in the cold.

 

[Blainestang]

I wish it were that easy. I reserved at the number one f series dealer in the country (have moved since due to other reasons) but they only got 5 2022 models due to being in the midwest. The fact is Ford prioritized ZEV states and left those of us in the states who buy more trucks out in the cold.

There's a dealer in FL that claims to be the largest volume F-series dealer in the world. Is there one in the midwest also claiming that?

But anyway, I agree with your point: There are a ton of variables that people can't reasonably account for when picking a dealer. You can make an educated guess on some factors, but no one has enough info to know for sure what the best choice is.

 

[lancersrock]

There's a dealer in FL that claims to be the largest volume F-series dealer in the world. Is there one in the midwest also claiming that?

But anyway, I agree with your point: There are a ton of variables that people can't reasonably account for when picking a dealer. You can make an educated guess on some factors, but no one has enough info to know for sure what the best choice is.

So I guess they aren't number 1 anymore. they opened up 2 other location. Still huge though. I know one thing they like to brag about is having shipped trucks to every state which is kinda neat.

 

[jb56]

I’ll admit to the privilege of already having the truck and what that affords me in terms of investment into the current drama. I’m lucky, and I feel a lot of your various frustrations.

But the trend here about Ford’s price increases being … evil? … seems premature and maybe not well thought out.

On a “normal” year, how much might pricing increase year-over-year? Whatever your answer, put that % in one bucket.

Next, note that MY23 vehicles come standard with additional options (eg heated seats), some of which even result in additional range. The costs of the additional options and improvements, put in a second bucket.

Then there’s lithium price increases. Put that % in your fourth bucket.

Then, there’s general inflation that has occurred since the MY22 prices were set, which inflation has been substantial. Put that % in your sixth bucket.

Then finally, fine, if you must, have a seventh bucket which is Ford simply charging more for the Lightning.

Of those seven buckets, it’s hard for me to be as confident as some others here that the only bucket in play is the seventh bucket. Has anyone really done the maths on the first six buckets?

In any event, how much exactly Ford is giving the Lightning MY23 pricing a squeeze can’t really be evaluated u til Ford releases their ICE F150 pricing for MY23.

We’ll see

Nobody is saying the pricing is "evil" are they? Maybe I missed a post.

But what you seem to be ignoring completely is that Ford is already selling everything at MSRP now, which is a huge increase in price per unit over 2019, when almost nobody paid sticker.

And you also can't ignore the fact that Ford has increased net income substantially on less gross revenue in 2020 and 2021. More profit on fewer sales.

And now, even though lithium and materials are up, Ford has way more demand than they can handle.

I don't think it's a stretch that they would increase the price in order to make more profit, when they have more demand than they can meet anyway, so they might as well get more per unit.

Is that "evil"? Not in my opinion. But it's also not "oh poor Ford, just managing to fight through these difficult market conditions to deliver a wholesome product!!"

 

[Flashy McLightning]

So I guess they aren't number 1 anymore. they opened up 2 other location. Still huge though. I know one thing they like to brag about is having shipped trucks to every state which is kinda neat.

Woodhouse is big, but they aren’t Brandon.

 

[Blainestang]

So I guess they aren't number 1 anymore. they opened up 2 other location. Still huge though. I know one thing they like to brag about is having shipped trucks to every state which is kinda neat.

Interesting. There's definitely some creative wording going on with some dealers because there are definitely more than just one claiming to be the largest overall or largest at one thing or another. Galpin Ford in California and Brandon Ford in Tampa (well, Brandon) both seem to claim to be the largest overall Ford dealer at the same time.

On their websites right now:

Galpin Ford : #1 Ford Dealer in the World 29 years in a row, #1 Volume for Dealer in the World for 29 years

Brandon Ford : World's Largest Volume Ford Dealer for 2019 & 2020 as recognized by Ford Motor Company



Doesn't make any difference to me, it's just interesting when multiple dealers are claiming the same thing.

 

[cvalue13]

Nobody is saying the pricing is "evil" are they? Maybe I missed a post.

I thought it would be obvious I was not being literal, but instead using the word “evil” as short hand for describing just the sort of - frankly - silly thinking you also go on to repeat.

And you also can't ignore the fact that Ford has increased net income substantially on less gross revenue in 2020 and 2021. More profit on fewer sales.

But what you seem to be ignoring completely is that Ford is already selling everything at MSRP now, which is a huge increase in price per unit over 2019, when almost nobody paid sticker.

So? To judge how or why these facts matter requires looking at the underlying reasons. Do you feel you’re an expert, company-health wise, on what financial position Ford was in circa 2018-2021? Or today?

Merely asserting that a company is making *more* money than it used to has nothing to do with whether that means they’re making *enough* (whatever that might mean).

Some brief perspective on what it means for FoMoCo to “make more money” this or the next several years:

Ford Had a Strong Quarter. But There Could Be Trouble Brewing (Barrons, 4/22) “Ford Motor ’s first-quarter earnings were stronger than expected, but analysts aren’t heaping praise on the results. Something is troubling Wall Street. … Analysts still have concerns because costs are rising. Ford (ticker: F) expects higher prices for raw materials to boost its commodity-related expenses by $4 billion in 2022, compared with the $1.8 billion it had predicted earlier”

https://www.barrons.com/amp/articles/ford-stock-price-earnings-rising-prices-costs-51651147895

Ford took $6B government loan in 2009 — and debt still haunts company (Detroit Free Press 6/20) “As of December 31, 2019, an aggregate $1.5 billion was outstanding… Documents filed by Ford show the company owes payments of $591 million in 2020, $591 million in 2021 and $289 million in 2022.”

Is that "evil"? Not in my opinion. But it's also not "oh poor Ford, just managing to fight through these difficult market conditions to deliver a wholesome product!!"

Nobody here has said this.

Instead, it was the opposite sort of “Ford’s revenues are up, yet they still choose to ask for more money!?” nonsense you and others slip into:

I'm frankly astounded by how many people on this forum give Ford a pass on the price increases due to the cost of supplies going up. The price increases may be partly because of that, but it seems abundantly clear that this is in response to the insane demand for the lightning. Ford is absolutely crushing it in the net income category even though its revenue has gone down and it treats customers like a necessary evil.

yeah, this increase is about capturing some of the difference between the MSRP and the market value (which is much higher than MSRP) so that they're getting some of the pie that dealers are taking, now. It's only partly about increased costs.

It’s pretty simple, in three parts:

(1) All car prices - including the value of your current/used cars - are going up, due to increased demand, supply-chain issues, and inflation

(2) Brand new Specialty vehicles like the F150L are a luxury item (yes, even the Pros), accordingly subject to more than average demand, supply-chain, and inflation issues.

(3) Given (1)-(2) above, anyone surprised (much less irritated) by Ford materially raising prices on the Lightning’s newest model year, is … odd

 

[jb56]

I thought it would be obvious I was not being literal, but instead using the word “evil” as short hand for describing just the sort of - frankly - silly thinking you also go on to repeat.



So? To judge how or why these facts matter requires looking at the underlying reasons. Do you feel you’re an expert, company-health wise, on what financial position Ford was in circa 2018-2021? Or today?

Merely asserting that a company is making *more* money than it used to has nothing to do with whether that means they’re making *enough* (whatever that might mean).

Some brief perspective on what it means for FoMoCo to “make more money” this or the next several years:

Ford Had a Strong Quarter. But There Could Be Trouble Brewing (Barrons, 4/22) “Ford Motor ’s first-quarter earnings were stronger than expected, but analysts aren’t heaping praise on the results. Something is troubling Wall Street. … Analysts still have concerns because costs are rising. Ford (ticker: F) expects higher prices for raw materials to boost its commodity-related expenses by $4 billion in 2022, compared with the $1.8 billion it had predicted earlier”

https://www.barrons.com/amp/articles/ford-stock-price-earnings-rising-prices-costs-51651147895

Ford took $6B government loan in 2009 — and debt still haunts company (Detroit Free Press 6/20) “As of December 31, 2019, an aggregate $1.5 billion was outstanding… Documents filed by Ford show the company owes payments of $591 million in 2020, $591 million in 2021 and $289 million in 2022.”


Nobody here has said this.

Instead, it was the opposite sort of “Ford’s revenues are up, yet they still choose to ask for more money!?” nonsense you and others slip into:






It’s pretty simple, in three parts:

(1) All car prices - including the value of your current/used cars - are going up, due to increased demand, supply-chain issues, and inflation

(2) Brand new Specialty vehicles like the F150L are a luxury item (yes, even the Pros), accordingly subject to more than average demand, supply-chain, and inflation issues.

(3) Given (1)-(2) above, anyone surprised (much less irritated) by Ford materially raising prices on the Lightning’s newest model year, is … odd

Ford's revenues aren't up. Maybe that was just a slip, or maybe you don't understand the difference between revenue and net income. But no, Ford's revenues are down.

And used car prices are no longer going up. They went up a lot, but they aren't going up anymore.

And I think we agree actually. I'm not even sure what nonsense you think I'm saying. I'm saying Ford is primarily reacting to excess demand, not inflation here. It may be better PR to blame increases primarily on inflation, but if they weren't selling their units, they wouldn't be raising their prices like this.

 

[cvalue13]

And I think we agree actually. I'm not even sure what nonsense you think I'm saying. I'm saying Ford is primarily reacting to excess demand, not inflation here.

I don’t think we agree, really

Because I think there is a blend of at least 6 “buckets” of sources within these MY23 price increases, but I don’t purport have any clue as to the distribution of percentages between those 6 buckets. will have more clue only after Ford releases ICE MY23 F150 pricing.

I wouldn’t begin to assert any confidence that the F150L MY23 prices are “primarily [driven by] excess demand.”

 

[greenne]

So I guess they aren't number 1 anymore. they opened up 2 other location. Still huge though. I know one thing they like to brag about is having shipped trucks to every state which is kinda neat.

I wish I had a nickel for every time a dealer claimed they were "#1" in sales or "#1 volume" in something. 99% of the time its BS...

 

[greenne]

I thought it would be obvious I was not being literal, but instead using the word “evil” as short hand for describing just the sort of - frankly - silly thinking you also go on to repeat.



So? To judge how or why these facts matter requires looking at the underlying reasons. Do you feel you’re an expert, company-health wise, on what financial position Ford was in circa 2018-2021? Or today?

Merely asserting that a company is making *more* money than it used to has nothing to do with whether that means they’re making *enough* (whatever that might mean).

Some brief perspective on what it means for FoMoCo to “make more money” this or the next several years:

Ford Had a Strong Quarter. But There Could Be Trouble Brewing (Barrons, 4/22) “Ford Motor ’s first-quarter earnings were stronger than expected, but analysts aren’t heaping praise on the results. Something is troubling Wall Street. … Analysts still have concerns because costs are rising. Ford (ticker: F) expects higher prices for raw materials to boost its commodity-related expenses by $4 billion in 2022, compared with the $1.8 billion it had predicted earlier”

https://www.barrons.com/amp/articles/ford-stock-price-earnings-rising-prices-costs-51651147895

Ford took $6B government loan in 2009 — and debt still haunts company (Detroit Free Press 6/20) “As of December 31, 2019, an aggregate $1.5 billion was outstanding… Documents filed by Ford show the company owes payments of $591 million in 2020, $591 million in 2021 and $289 million in 2022.”


Nobody here has said this.

Instead, it was the opposite sort of “Ford’s revenues are up, yet they still choose to ask for more money!?” nonsense you and others slip into:






It’s pretty simple, in three parts:

(1) All car prices - including the value of your current/used cars - are going up, due to increased demand, supply-chain issues, and inflation

(2) Brand new Specialty vehicles like the F150L are a luxury item (yes, even the Pros), accordingly subject to more than average demand, supply-chain, and inflation issues.

(3) Given (1)-(2) above, anyone surprised (much less irritated) by Ford materially raising prices on the Lightning’s newest model year, is … odd

Some people just love the free market...until they don't love the free market. Think the Lightning is overpriced.. then don't buy it. It 's pretty simple to me.

Good luck with that Rivian or Cybertruck...

Sponsored