Talk me out of a HIS by Sunrun

[ResidualJinx]

So as the title states I'm struggling to see the downsides to my decision to install a Home Integration System (HIS) by SunRun at my Cali home. Here's the deets:

• 2022 Lariat Extended Range is currently shipped and should arrive at the dealer by month's end
• Quotes to install Ford CSP range between $750-1250 so I'm calling it $1k for the cheapest option (sunk cost to charge at home)
• Quote from Sunrun for just HIS $9k which includes installation of CSP
• This is where things get interesting:
  • Tiny 6 panel (2.12 kwh) system that allegedly will get approx 3k kwh per year, HIS and CSP installed: $11.5k
  • Whole system qualifies for 30% tax credit: ~$3.5k
  • Alternative fuel tax credit, for installing the CSP: $1k (not sure I can double dip like this but I'll ask my accountant later)
  • Cost of electricity in Cali averaging .30/kwh (.21/kwh off peak and .51/kwh on peak which is 4-9pm), so annually the 6 panels will generate approx $1k of electricity at SCE rates
• My subjective math:
  • $11.5k solar + HIS + CSP
  • -$3.5k tax credit
  • -$1k CSP sunk cost
  • Potential -$1k alternative fuel tax credit
  • $6-7k system cost which would pay itself off in approx 6-7 years
  • Because I already have Sunrun panels (12 of them) and Sunrun is installing the rest, they'll tie in the entire system and I'll be able to use solar during any outage to reduce draw on the truck (wont be able to charge tuck from excess for now)
  • That number does not factor the peace of mind of having backup power when Cali has more rolling blackouts in the years to come AND
  • When Ford+Sunrun brings Intelligent Power (different then Intelligent Backup Power) online, and I'm able to use the truck's battery as my primary source of electricity during peak hours that would prevent me from drawing from the grid at .51/kwh from 4-9pm which is astronomical in cost and potentially save me oodles, and then recharge the truck at night for .21/kwh. For example, this month I used 310 peak kwh so that's a saving of approx $90/mo or another $1k per year, cutting the repayment period in half to 3-3.5 years. ~ fully aware this could be vaporware lol. I did find this:​

Power usage that keeps getting smarter... Available third quarter 2023​

K go!!! Tell me all the reasons I'm crazy or my logic is flawed so I talk myself out of this lol

Sponsored

 

[SteelTerp87]

I mean, it doesn’t sound crazy at all. If my home was subjected to blackouts or intermittent power loss, I would get the HIS as well. From a cost perspective, it’s better than a whole home generator when you factor in fuel and maintenance for those. The kicker with the HIS though, is that it will require you to continue to have a Lightning to connect to your house. What if in 5 years you want a different truck that does not support the back up power? Just a thought

 

[ResidualJinx]

Fantastic point, especially with manufactures tendency to build in obsolescence. Hopefully I drive this thing into the dirt or at least right up until the 8 yr/100k mile battery warranty expires and by then the system should've theoretical started to save me money.

The other downside I've realized after posting is you're only allowed to claim the credit once a lifetime. So I'm claiming very little and wont be able to claim it again or at least that's what I've been told.

btw I just moved back to Cali from Maryland and I already miss Frederick!!

 

[Commodore]

So as the title states I'm struggling to see the downsides to my decision to install a Home Integration System (HIS) by SunRun at my Cali home. Here's the deets:

• 2022 Lariat Extended Range is currently shipped and should arrive at the dealer by month's end
• Quotes to install Ford CSP range between $750-1250 so I'm calling it $1k for the cheapest option (sunk cost to charge at home)
• Quote from Sunrun for just HIS $9k which includes installation of CSP
• This is where things get interesting:
  • Tiny 6 panel (2.12 kwh) system that allegedly will get approx 3k kwh per year, HIS and CSP installed: $11.5k
  • Whole system qualifies for 30% tax credit: ~$3.5k
  • Alternative fuel tax credit, for installing the CSP: $1k (not sure I can double dip like this but I'll ask my accountant later)
  • Cost of electricity in Cali averaging .30/kwh (.21/kwh off peak and .51/kwh on peak which is 4-9pm), so annually the 6 panels will generate approx $1k of electricity at SCE rates
• My subjective math:
  • $11.5k solar + HIS + CSP
  • -$3.5k tax credit
  • -$1k CSP sunk cost
  • Potential -$1k alternative fuel tax credit
  • $6-7k system cost which would pay itself off in approx 6-7 years
  • Because I already have Sunrun panels (12 of them) and Sunrun is installing the rest, they'll tie in the entire system and I'll be able to use solar during any outage to reduce draw on the truck (wont be able to charge tuck from excess for now)
  • That number does not factor the peace of mind of having backup power when Cali has more rolling blackouts in the years to come AND
  • 
    When Ford+Sunrun brings Intelligent Power (different then Intelligent Backup Power) online, and I'm able to use the truck's battery as my primary source of electricity during peak hours that would prevent me from drawing from the grid at .51/kwh from 4-9pm which is astronomical in cost and potentially save me oodles, and then recharge the truck at night for .21/kwh. For example, this month I used 310 peak kwh so that's a saving of approx $90/mo or another $1k per year, cutting the repayment period in half to 3-3.5 years. ~ fully aware this could be vaporware lol. I did find this:​

Power usage that keeps getting smarter... Available third quarter 2023​

K go!!! Tell me all the reasons I'm crazy or my logic is flawed so I talk myself out of this lol

Do it!
The future cost will likely be worse...

 

[hihosilver]

Speaking strictly as someone who has a interlock manual transfer switch setup with an exterior connection for a portable generator, I am contemplating what the cost will be to adapt this setup to work with the truck to power my house with a minimum outlay of money. I have been told that the truck will sense a ground fault with my panel set up as it is, so I will need to make some changes to permit the truck to feed the house. The Sunrun HIS is exorbitantly expensive from my perspective and the automatic switchover is not worth the cost of the system for me. But, that being said, I don't suffer many power losses where I am and it's more an insurance policy to have multiple options to power my home.

 

[ResidualJinx]

Speaking strictly as someone who has a interlock manual transfer switch setup with an exterior connection for a portable generator, I am contemplating what the cost will be to adapt this setup to work with the truck to power my house with a minimum outlay of money. I have been told that the truck will sense a ground fault with my panel set up as it is, so I will need to make some changes to permit the truck to feed the house. The Sunrun HIS is exorbitantly expensive from my perspective and the automatic switchover is not worth the cost of the system for me. But, that being said, I don't suffer many power losses where I am and it's more an insurance policy to have multiple options to power my home.

I actually started out by exploring the interlock or manual transfer switch options and there are some threads on here talking about it but as I looked more at the financials none of those pay themselves off and only increase the value add of the HIS system + minimal panels. I was quoted approx $1k in the past in MD to get a interlock and external port installed that would in essence provide many of the same functions albeit manually but would not provide any less dollars spent toward electrons. My wife was a fan of this option because it definitely has a much lower financial investment in the beginning but she's coming around lol.

 

[Maquis]

I actually started out by exploring the interlock or manual transfer switch options and there are some threads on here talking about it but as I looked more at the financials none of those pay themselves off and only increase the value add of the HIS system + minimal panels. I was quoted approx $1k in the past in MD to get a interlock and external port installed that would in essence provide many of the same functions albeit manually but would not provide any less dollars spent toward electrons. My wife was a fan of this option because it definitely has a much lower financial investment in the beginning but she's coming around lol.

If I’m reading correctly, your payback comes from solar. Did you price an equal sized solar installation without the HIS?
For example, if a 6 panel system without the HIS is $5K less than with HIS, and you can install a manual transfer switch for $1K, you sink $4K less and get the same financial gain from the power you produce, resulting in a faster payback without (at least some) of the obsolescence risk.

 

[cvalue13]

the dirt or at least right up until the 8 yr/100k mile battery warranty expires and by then the system should've theoretical started to save me money.

hold up

so, right when the system starts to save you money is when you may no longer have the vehicle needed for it to provide a ROI?

I’m not one to over-focus on ROI, as I see other value in essentially pre-paying my utility costs and reducing future cash flow requirements.

but for me, the biggest issue (there are others in my case) with the HIS is this idea that something that is $10K becomes a value-less brick of house-herpes if any of:

• I sell my house (high prob new owner doesn’t have lightning)

• I sell my vehicle on good terms (I’ve never kept a vehicle >4 years, and with an EV that pace is possible to accelerate given leaps of advances in new offerings)

• even worse, I sell/lose the vehicle on bad terms, where the vehicle has an issue(s) that cause me to lose faith in the model/brand

Seemed to me, if nothing else, the above considerations should at least cause me to wait some time before pulling trigger, to possibly de-risk both my prefer need and also other’s experience with the HIS

As an aside, I personally also found SunRun to be so terrible I wanted nothing to do with any product that might tie me to that company in any way in the future

 

[ResidualJinx]

If I’m reading correctly, your payback comes from solar. Did you price an equal sized solar installation without the HIS?
For example, if a 6 panel system without the HIS is $5K less than with HIS, and you can install a manual transfer switch for $1K, you sink $4K less and get the same financial gain from the power you produce, resulting in a faster payback without (at least some) of the obsolescence risk.

Good question, I have not quoted a straight up solar system of equal size. I will say when I asked for twice the panels the price basically doubled. I think the cost saving here is that the delta bi-direction inverter is doing double duty here and taking the place of a traditional inverter. I will definitely look into this though to remain as objectively informed as possible and to better understand the true cost of the system.

 

[ResidualJinx]

hold up

so, right when the system starts to save you money is when you may no longer have the vehicle needed for it to provide a ROI?

I’m not one to over-focus on ROI, as I see other value in essentially pre-paying my utility costs and reducing future cash flow requirements.

but for me, the biggest issue (there are others in my case) with the HIS is this idea that something that is $10K becomes a value-less brick of house-herpes if any of:

• I sell my house (high prob new owner doesn’t have lightning)

• I sell my vehicle on good terms (I’ve never kept a vehicle >4 years, and with an EV that pace is possible to accelerate given leaps of advances in new offerings)

• even worse, I sell/lose the vehicle on bad terms, where the vehicle has an issue(s) that cause me to lose faith in the model/brand

Seemed to me, if nothing else, the above considerations should at least cause me to wait some time before pulling trigger, to possibly de-risk both my prefer need and also other’s experience with the HIS

As an aside, I personally also found SunRun to be so terrible I wanted nothing to do with any product that might tie me to that company in any way in the future

The ROI doesn't come from the battery backup Lightning or the Delta bi-directional inverter, it comes from the panels that should continue to generate power, of course at lower rates, for much longer past my ROI. The present value vs future value of money is the exact argument my wife posed. She said that's cute that you have all this to show the initial outlay would be absorbed in x years but that's some significant assumptions you got going on there, plus you're still spending money today.

Two things I didn't mention in the original post because it was already getting long, we just moved into this house like 2 months ago (house is basically brand new, built in 2020) and we're going to be staying (baring something dramatic happening) for at least 6 years which is why I wanted to break even before then. I'm hoping to hold on to the house beyond that time too but who knows.

Sunrun is not fantastic but man the horror stories I've heard from tesla solar makes me thing it's an industry thing. That is a very important non-financial data point though!

 

[ResidualJinx]

Side note, this is a Delta bi-direction inverter that allows one to use their Lightning as a battery backup to the house and now that the concept of V2X is out of the bag, I can only image other EV manufactures are going to try to figure this out too. Its not Ford or Sunrun made and Ford used a fairly standardized CCS connector to harness the DC juice from the truck's battery, which means it theoretically could be used for another brand electric vehicle down the road... not something I'm counting on for my math lmao

 

[cvalue13]

Lightning or the Delta bi-directional inverter, it comes from the panels that should continue to generate power, of course at lower rates, for much longer past my ROI.

outside my bailiwick here, but for you to consider: I get the feeling that the HIS inverter etc interface only with small amounts of solar (is it 4kWh)? Not sure if I understand that to mean that if you later want or need a larger PV system the HOS may not be sufficient to play their roll (and perhaps even need extra equipment to deal with the HIS being undersized)

but this is not an informed thing, just a line of question f’ing I’ve felt I’ve sensed in the convos of more experienced folks and perhaps for you to weigh into your calculus

 

[Viet658]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding but are you calculating pay back based on solar savings or peak shaving savings from being able to use the trucks power to power your house during peak power periods. If it’s for solar I think you can get solar+FCP for less cost than the HIS+solar option. If it’s peak shaving then I don’t think ford has enabled that feature yet and not guaranteed that they ever will as well.

 

[watchdoc]

My opinion would be there are cheaper and better ways to go about this.
1. You need alot more solar to add any real cost savings other than back up power for your home.
2. A Sol Ark inverter, a manual transfer switch, and the Ford 9.6 bed power option costs the same and will be more of a home upgrade than the Ford Delta system that locks a future owner into the Ford ecosystem.
3. Ford intelligent power is vaporware at this point. The Tesla VPP exists now. If I lived in Cali, I'd want a Powerwall or Powerwall +.

 

[FlasherZ]

Some thoughts:

1. If you think V2G standards are going to continue (and it looks like they are), then I'd not worry about the lifetime of your truck.

2. The HIS system trades off a bit of flexibility / adds complexity in solar PV setup (the 4-10 kW limitation of the BDI) in exchange for the whole-house backup. Not too much of an issue, as long as it works.

As noted by other posters, there are less expensive setups if you don't want/need the automatic restore. Using more traditional solar PV systems plus a manual interlock system can save some money on the setup.

But that automatic thing is nice. My home is protected by an ATS with 25 kW LP genset. When power goes out, you can count to 10 and the lights will be back on.

As long as you're not starving the spouse or kids by taking their food money, it'll give you good peace of mind, even if finances don't turn out how you'd like it.

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