Sync 4A - Are we stuck with deprecated technology already?

[PrivateJoker]

With the announcement that Ford is going to move to Android on the 2023, I'm concerned that I may be getting a dead-end bug plagued expierence.

I was an early adopter of the original Sync system and have already gone through this. I had a 2011 Ford Edge with the second generation Sync. For its time, parts of the system were great. It was riddled with bugs, and for my six years of ownership it was a pain. I had to frequently pull a fuse to get it to reboot, and if I needed navigation that meant pulling over to do so.

With Ford moving to a new platform, I think its fair to say they're not going to improve the current QNX Sync 4A systems beyond fixing critical bugs going forward. And honestly, the system needs ALOT of work as is. So does that mean Ford is going to leave all the early adopters out to pasture?

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[sotek2345]

With the announcement that Ford is going to move to Android on the 2023, I'm concerned that I may be getting a dead-end bug plagued expierence.

I was an early adopter of the original Sync system and have already gone through this. I had a 2011 Ford Edge with the second generation Sync. For its time, parts of the system were great. It was riddled with bugs, and for my six years of ownership it was a pain. I had to frequently pull a fuse to get it to reboot, and if I needed navigation that meant pulling over to do so.

With Ford moving to a new platform, I think its fair to say they're not going to improve the current QNX Sync 4A systems beyond fixing critical bugs going forward. And honestly, the system needs ALOT of work as is. So does that mean Ford is going to leave all the early adopters out to pasture?

Unfortunately the likely answer to that is yes. That said, we don't know if / when Ford is going to shift to Lightning over to Android Automotive, only that they have announced they will start using it somewhere in 2023. No details on that yet. Given they are still using Sync 3 on some vehicles (Maverick), it could be awhile.

If I had to guess, they will hold off going to AA until the "Gen 2" Lightning in ~2025, which would give us a few years of updates at least. Just a guess though.

Overall I am happy with the 4A system in our Mach-e (still waiting for my Lightning) and would be OK with this staying as is. Always buy a vehicle for what it has at time of sale. Counting on updates for additional capability / functionality is a fools errand.

 

[ericpullen]

Just my $0.02, but I always look at a purchase as a point in time decision and not assume it will ever get an update. If I'm happy with the tech as it sits today, then I go ahead with the purchase (just as I did with my Lightning and Mach-E), otherwise I will hold off and wait for the feature I need/want. Just ask any Tesla owner that purchased FSD, they thought it may be 6 mos or a year away and it's been years and it is still not fully baked.

We came from a 2010 Ford F-150 (with original Microsoft Sync and basically just Bluetooth) and a 2020 Ford Expedition with Sync (non-wireless CarPlay) and I was very satisfied with each vehicle as they were delivered.

To me, the biggest downside to waiting is that there will always be something new on the horizon, and you may waste a lot of time waiting for the next big feature and not enjoy what it offers today.

 

[PrivateJoker]

Counting on updates for additional capability / functionality is a fools errand.

I guess those of us coming from a Tesla aren't of that opinion. Maybe this has now become an expectation that you don't unnecessarily leave people behind because of poor hardware/software architecture decisions.

 

[sotek2345]

I guess those of us coming from a Tesla aren't of that opinion. Maybe this has now become an expectation that you don't unnecessarily leave people behind because of poor hardware/software architecture decisions.

I would say that Tesla has left many behind who bought into FSD years ago with nothing to show for it.

 

[PrivateJoker]

Just my $0.02, but I always look at a purchase as a point in time decision and not assume it will ever get an update.

I accepted this when I put down my deposit; I know the animal that is the legacy auto maker. But I think Ford should do better, as Tesla has raised the bar in this area. I don't think we're in an era where you can spend $ 100k on a product and it doesn't get at least the software support of a product that costs 1/100th of it.

But if they can at least maintain compatibility with Android Auto wireless so it doesn't constantly disconnect I can use useful apps that make-up for major shortfalls in the system. But again, my expierance with other legacy auto makers and Ford itself makes me think this may also be a false hope.

 

[PrivateJoker]

I would say that Tesla has left many behind who bought into FSD years ago with nothing to show for it.

Not sure what you're talking about? If you paid for full FSD they're going to retrofit the car so it works when its released. Not to mention about a billion features your car has picked up since you bought it.

 

[ericpullen]

But if they can at least maintain compatibility with Android Auto wireless so it doesn't constantly disconnect I can use useful apps that make-up for major shortfalls in the system. But again, my expierance with other legacy auto makers and Ford itself makes me think this may also be a false hope.

This I agree with you... if it was delivered with Android Auto and its having an issue with disconnects, they absolutely should be issuing updates to fix the issue (and quickly).

 

[PrivateJoker]

This I agree with you... if it was delivered with Android Auto and its having an issue with disconnects, they absolutely should be issuing updates to fix the issue (and quickly).

As I've seen with other automakers. This becomes blaming the phone, then blaming Google, and eventually doing nothing about it. We'll see what Ford does about it, but honestly from what I saw with Sync2 - many issues never got fully resolved. They just kept blaming bluetooth on the phone or other issues.

 

[sotek2345]

Not sure what you're talking about? If you paid for full FSD they're going to retrofit the car so it works when its released. Not to mention about a billion features your car has picked up since you bought it.

Assuming you still have the car. If you bought a Tesla in 2018 with FSD and then traded it in this year, you are out thousands of dollars with no benefit to you.

 

[sotek2345]

As I've seen with other automakers. This becomes blaming the phone, then blaming Google, and eventually doing nothing about it. We'll see what Ford does about it, but honestly from what I saw with Sync2 - many issues never got fully resolved. They just kept blaming bluetooth on the phone or other issues.

I was going to ask about the phone. We have zero issues with Android Auto connectivity in our Mach-e (Sync 4A system) using our Pixel 5 phones.

 

[PrivateJoker]

Assuming you still have the car. If you bought a Tesla in 2018 with FSD and then traded it in this year, you are out thousands of dollars with no benefit to you.

Except for higher resale value. FSD enabled cars get more money than non-FSD enabled cars. You also had things like automated lane changes, summon etc during the ownership of the car that non-FSD cars did not have access to.

 

[GDN]

With the announcement that Ford is going to move to Android on the 2023, I'm concerned that I may be getting a dead-end bug plagued expierence.

I was an early adopter of the original Sync system and have already gone through this. I had a 2011 Ford Edge with the second generation Sync. For its time, parts of the system were great. It was riddled with bugs, and for my six years of ownership it was a pain. I had to frequently pull a fuse to get it to reboot, and if I needed navigation that meant pulling over to do so.

With Ford moving to a new platform, I think its fair to say they're not going to improve the current QNX Sync 4A systems beyond fixing critical bugs going forward. And honestly, the system needs ALOT of work as is. So does that mean Ford is going to leave all the early adopters out to pasture?

Unfortunately, you are likely correct. This shows us where Ford is in their life cycle. They have no idea, or perhaps, just no desire to take the time to make the new one backward compatible nor how to support your current system. If it is just software they are changing this should be a slam dunk. If it also requires a different APIM, it should be a $500 decision for each owner to upgrade to the new one. At least give me the opportunity to purchase it and retrofit it into my truck.

It could be more than the APIM, but I don't think there is any way they were able to pull off re-engineering every module that talks to the new APIM, so I would hope it is backward compatible, but who really knows.

The rest of this story is you are really ignoring the fact that Ford has rarely fixed anything on any of their previous Sync systems. You are pretty much stuck with just what you get along with every bug from purchase time. A few fixes, but few and far between and the update cycle is abysmal.

I know we weren't promised anything extra when we bought our trucks, but when you look at what Tesla does, this will start to be the difference maker across the board. I agree FSD hasn't panned out yet, but I knew that before I bought my 3 and paid for FSD. However, the other enhancements and updates cost them little to nothing to send out to me and continued to add value to my purchase from a few years ago, simply because it was easy for them to do.

Ford and other legacy makers will always struggle with this because they can't build a common platform. They don't understand the value of adding the same hardware to each unit that rolls down the line (the cost is minimal to add a few extra modules) which would then greatly simplify all of their support.

So anyway, while I'd love to see some new options hit my system, I know that I bought something that will likely be buggy its whole life because they can't even support what they've already built and put out the door.

 

[vandy1981]

It could be more than the APIM, but I don't think there is any way they were able to pull off re-engineering every module that talks to the new APIM, so I would hope it is backward compatible, but who really knows.

It's more complicated than switching out the APIM. Android Automotive apparently requires on-board network infrastructure that can't be easily retrofitted into existing vehicles, at least according to The Verge.

 

[Chado]

I think for now you have to accept that any non Tesla EV you buy will have this issue of the company not caring about adding value to a product that has already been paid for; it's a way of thinking that almost every company has.

Ford and others say they want to compete against Tesla, and all of them focus on making a cool looking EV, big screens, high hp and ftlb numbers but they are always missing that thing that makes Teslas feel like they came from one mind..it may be a mind that doesn't know how to turn a wrench and thinks a crap load of shims to align a bumper cover is ok, but still a beautiful mind.

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