Sold my Pro due to high energy price in MA and I drive too far

[broncoaz]

I sold my 2022 Lightning Pro today. I really liked almost everything about the truck, but the cost of utilities in eastern Massachusetts made the truck less appealing for me. When I was running cost estimates on the Lighting I was using 14.9 cents per kWh as my baseline electricity cost, I had asked my wife for the number off the bill and she gave me the cost of electricity, not including the cost of distribution. Upon reviewing the bill after taking delivery of my truck in September I found that we are paying 34.1 cents per kWh for electricity and distribution, our bill for 941 kWh was $320.80. When I lived in AZ I was paying about 10 cents per kWh, my survey here showed 68.7% of respondents were under 15 cents/kWh. https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-pay-per-kwh-at-home.12567/page-5#post-268090 I haven’t been able to get an answer from my utility on why electricity is so expensive here and if anything can be done to reduce the bill. The governor signed a bill in August 2022 requiring utilities to develop a time of use plan, there is no date for implementation. I looked at putting solar on my home, but it’s about $50K up front for what I’d need to power the truck and a power wall, supposedly I’ll get back all but $12K in 5 years time. Spending more than the cost of the truck on solar now is not appealing since I’m looking for another house.

The net of the high costs means I’m saving about 20% vs my 2021 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 diesel work truck getting 27 mpg. 20% isn’t nothing, but at 14.9 cents/kWh I was saving 60% compared to the diesel. At the end of the day the 20% saving isn’t enough to go from a 650 mile range with 5 minute fill ups to a ~200 mile range with necessary 30-40 minute stops for DCFC on days I drive farther. If I drove less in a day I would’ve opted to keep the Lightning, but I’m pushing the 160 mile mark 2-3 days per week. The expected winter range drop would make my situation worse, and likely making the EV more expensive than diesel. To top that off the utilities here have asked for a 64% increase in electric rates that should be decided on next month. My truck is heading to the Midwest to a guy paying 9 cents per kWh and less overnight, he will save a bunch of money compared to gasoline.

I‘m a fleet manager for a construction company with 150 trucks, I bought the Lightning personally to test the concept for the company. With government mandates for no new ICE vehicles by 2035 (MA follows CA rules) I wanted the data and knowledge on what EV’s are currently capable of. As this point in MA with the electricity prices 2-4x what most people are paying in other states I can’t recommend electric vehicles for our fleet. Aside from the costs, many of our drivers run 200+ miles in a day and tow 14’ enclosed trailers. I have a 2023 Bolt EUV on order for one of our drivers, now I’m debating on canceling. I’ll have to check out the Bolt forum and get some data before I decide.

I am very glad I purchased and experienced the Lightning, it’s an amazing vehicle and driving experience that I will miss. I am looking forward to what time and market competition will bring for EV’s and more specifically battery technology in the next 5-10 years. I’m a huge advocate for EV’s just not in my state right now due to the electric rates. I have notified my Chevy fleet guy that I want a Silverado EV as soon as they are available, and I have personal reservations for the Silverado EV and Tesla. I will reevaluate the energy price issue when the next truck is available.

My survey:

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[theblunden]

I sold my 2022 Lightning Pro today. I really liked almost everything about the truck, but the cost of utilities in eastern Massachusetts made the truck less appealing for me. When I was running cost estimates on the Lighting I was using 14.9 cents per kWh as my baseline electricity cost, I had asked my wife for the number off the bill and she gave me the cost of electricity, not including the cost of distribution. Upon reviewing the bill after taking delivery of my truck in September I found that we are paying 34.1 cents per kWh for electricity and distribution, our bill for 941 kWh was $320.80. When I lived in AZ I was paying about 10 cents per kWh, my survey here showed 68.7% of respondents were under 15 cents/kWh. https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-pay-per-kwh-at-home.12567/page-5#post-268090 I haven’t been able to get an answer from my utility on why electricity is so expensive here and if anything can be done to reduce the bill. The governor signed a bill in August 2022 requiring utilities to develop a time of use plan, there is no date for implementation. I looked at putting solar on my home, but it’s about $50K up front for what I’d need to power the truck and a power wall, supposedly I’ll get back all but $12K in 5 years time. Spending more than the cost of the truck on solar now is not appealing since I’m looking for another house.

The net of the high costs means I’m saving about 20% vs my 2021 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 diesel work truck getting 27 mpg. 20% isn’t nothing, but at 14.9 cents/kWh I was saving 60% compared to the diesel. At the end of the day the 20% saving isn’t enough to go from a 650 mile range with 5 minute fill ups to a ~200 mile range with necessary 30-40 minute stops for DCFC on days I drive farther. If I drove less in a day I would’ve opted to keep the Lightning, but I’m pushing the 160 mile mark 2-3 days per week. The expected winter range drop would make my situation worse, and likely making the EV more expensive than diesel. To top that off the utilities here have asked for a 64% increase in electric rates that should be decided on next month. My truck is heading to the Midwest to a guy paying 9 cents per kWh and less overnight, he will save a bunch of money compared to gasoline.

I‘m a fleet manager for a construction company with 150 trucks, I bought the Lightning personally to test the concept for the company. With government mandates for no new ICE vehicles by 2035 (MA follows CA rules) I wanted the data and knowledge on what EV’s are currently capable of. As this point in MA with the electricity prices 2-4x what most people are paying in other states I can’t recommend electric vehicles for our fleet. Aside from the costs, many of our drivers run 200+ miles in a day and tow 14’ enclosed trailers. I have a 2023 Bolt EUV on order for one of our drivers, now I’m debating on canceling. I’ll have to check out the Bolt forum and get some data before I decide.

I am very glad I purchased and experienced the Lightning, it’s an amazing vehicle and driving experience that I will miss. I am looking forward to what time and market competition will bring for EV’s and more specifically battery technology in the next 5-10 years. I’m a huge advocate for EV’s just not in my state right now due to the electric rates. I have notified my Chevy fleet guy that I want a Silverado EV as soon as they are available, and I have personal reservations for the Silverado EV and Tesla. I will reevaluate the energy price issue when the next truck is available.

My survey:

What did you sell it for?

 

[F150ROD]

Gas must be cheap there for you to switch. Good Luck and enjoy the diesel, there is nothing like it.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Good luck, nice chatting with you

 

[broncoaz]

Diesel isn’t specifically cheap here, I saw $5.19 at the pump today. Here was my analysis I posted on 10/6:

Based on the seemingly high price of electricity, it doesn’t appear that I’m really saving much money vs my 1500 ecodiesel pickup. I’ve driven 1020.8 miles at 2.3 kWh average according to the truck, so with my home energy rate of $.341 443.8 kWh works out to $151.34. My 1500 diesel averages about 27 mpg, so at $4.89 per gallon of diesel that works out to 835.62 miles for the same cost.

 

[alainboston]

I sold my 2022 Lightning Pro today. I really liked almost everything about the truck, but the cost of utilities in eastern Massachusetts made the truck less appealing for me. When I was running cost estimates on the Lighting I was using 14.9 cents per kWh as my baseline electricity cost, I had asked my wife for the number off the bill and she gave me the cost of electricity, not including the cost of distribution. Upon reviewing the bill after taking delivery of my truck in September I found that we are paying 34.1 cents per kWh for electricity and distribution, our bill for 941 kWh was $320.80. When I lived in AZ I was paying about 10 cents per kWh, my survey here showed 68.7% of respondents were under 15 cents/kWh. https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-pay-per-kwh-at-home.12567/page-5#post-268090 I haven’t been able to get an answer from my utility on why electricity is so expensive here and if anything can be done to reduce the bill. The governor signed a bill in August 2022 requiring utilities to develop a time of use plan, there is no date for implementation. I looked at putting solar on my home, but it’s about $50K up front for what I’d need to power the truck and a power wall, supposedly I’ll get back all but $12K in 5 years time. Spending more than the cost of the truck on solar now is not appealing since I’m looking for another house.

The net of the high costs means I’m saving about 20% vs my 2021 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 diesel work truck getting 27 mpg. 20% isn’t nothing, but at 14.9 cents/kWh I was saving 60% compared to the diesel. At the end of the day the 20% saving isn’t enough to go from a 650 mile range with 5 minute fill ups to a ~200 mile range with necessary 30-40 minute stops for DCFC on days I drive farther. If I drove less in a day I would’ve opted to keep the Lightning, but I’m pushing the 160 mile mark 2-3 days per week. The expected winter range drop would make my situation worse, and likely making the EV more expensive than diesel. To top that off the utilities here have asked for a 64% increase in electric rates that should be decided on next month. My truck is heading to the Midwest to a guy paying 9 cents per kWh and less overnight, he will save a bunch of money compared to gasoline.

I‘m a fleet manager for a construction company with 150 trucks, I bought the Lightning personally to test the concept for the company. With government mandates for no new ICE vehicles by 2035 (MA follows CA rules) I wanted the data and knowledge on what EV’s are currently capable of. As this point in MA with the electricity prices 2-4x what most people are paying in other states I can’t recommend electric vehicles for our fleet. Aside from the costs, many of our drivers run 200+ miles in a day and tow 14’ enclosed trailers. I have a 2023 Bolt EUV on order for one of our drivers, now I’m debating on canceling. I’ll have to check out the Bolt forum and get some data before I decide.

I am very glad I purchased and experienced the Lightning, it’s an amazing vehicle and driving experience that I will miss. I am looking forward to what time and market competition will bring for EV’s and more specifically battery technology in the next 5-10 years. I’m a huge advocate for EV’s just not in my state right now due to the electric rates. I have notified my Chevy fleet guy that I want a Silverado EV as soon as they are available, and I have personal reservations for the Silverado EV and Tesla. I will reevaluate the energy price issue when the next truck is available.

My survey:

I know that the cape is getting hit by energy efficiency surcharges compared to the greater Boston area because of how the electricity is generated. I don't see that changing anytime soon, even if the Sandwich Power Plant is repurposed as a conduit for the offshore windfarms since those are not cheap to build. https://commonwealthmagazine.org/energy/japanese-firm-has-different-plan-for-cape-power-plants/
Your best bet would be to lobby Electrify America to install chargers near you. That seems to be the cheapest right now since Massachusetts has the by the minute rate.

 

[Oneand0]

You really did your homework and it wasn’t just for you, but also for your place of work. Fully understand what you’re saying.

I’m in California and lucky to be out of PG&E and in another Utility where I will get 12 cents Kw. My father is probably getting his Pro in December and is in expensive PG&E. He’s going to keep it at least a year and if he’s not satisfied at the savings, he said he is open to selling it and buying a hybrid F-150. I’m guessing he will keep it, but you never know.

 

[lightspeed]

After all of the pricing shenanigans, PG&E charges $0.37/kWh in my area of CA and that's with relatively modest use. On EV rate, it can be $0.25/kWh overnight. This is a 50% to 66% discount on the price of gas at $6/gallon. PG&E is so incompetent. It only costs $0.13/kWh to generate the electricity in spite of sourcing the most expensive unicorn fart gas and rainbow power, but PG&E adds the addition $0.24/kWh to "distribute" it -- as if the wires/poles/transformers wear out with each kWh used instead of being a fixed infrastructure maintenance price.

I envy people paying 0.07/kWh which would be like paying $0.64/gallon!

It's definitely not worth $80k to buy any new car just to save a couple of thousand a year in gas, but driving 12K miles in CA would save roughly $2,372/year in gas or $23,720 over ten years which is somewhat substantial especially if you got a Pro for $40K with the $7,500 rebate.

 

[bryan995]

Plus you got the $7500 federal rebate and the $7500 state rebate.

$15,000 in your pocket plus whatever markup you got on the sale. I’m sure the slightly higher electric price is to blame

 

[broncoaz]

Plus you got the $7500 federal rebate and the $7500 state rebate.

$15,000 in your pocket plus whatever markup you got on the sale. I’m sure the slightly higher electric price is to blame

$7500 federal rebate yes. $2500 from MA on the Pro weight class I can’t collect, it requires the vehicle to be registered to me for three years. The last thing I want to do is get on the wrong side of MA with regard to taxes . I’m not saying I didn’t profit on the transaction, but I honestly was stoked about testing the tech and enjoying the Lightning for a few years. At least I got to do one of those things.

 

[RickLightning]

So the key learning here is:

Do not listen to your wife



Seriously, this could have been an expensive mistake driven by an inability to understand the electric bill. She's not the first, many have posted here and when pushed to actually read the bill and analyze every line item, they realize they were way off.

People sometimes push a separate meter, but miss a monthly meter cost. Our utility freely admits that for most people the 2nd meter's slightly lower rate is obliterated by the monthly cost.

 

[boggle]

Don't blame you for bailing, if I drove long distances as frequently as you have I'd likely do the same with similar rates here in CT. I really don't understand how our states want us to adopt BEVs while allowing these monopolized utilities to rake us over the coals on electric delivery surcharges. And none of the Lightning trims even qualify for our state tax incentive anymore since they pushed all the MSRPs over $50K.

Delivery rates through Eversource nearly double the cost of service up to approx. $0.030/kWh, pretty much the same as what EA+ offers for DCFC here ($0.31/kWh). With gas currently hovering around $3.30 an ICE with 25MPG would be the same cost/mile with greater overall range, and that's without even taking into account the winter range loss on the Lightning.

 

[hturnerfamily]

What you have forgotten, in your equation, though, is MAINTENANCE, and WARRANTY, and CONVENIENCE.

While you might have to stop more often and longer to fill an EV, while traveling, you also have to remember the out-of-service time and costs in oil changes, powertrain maintenance, and all the future 'legacy' diesel and/or gas engine maintenance costs.
Both vehicles will need tires, that's a simple comparison, but the EV also will not need NEAR the frequent brake pad changes, due to the amount of regeneration.

Other than those two similarities, the EV Lightning needs NO other maintenance. All that is not even considering that the EV Lightning comes with a 8 YEAR 100,000 miles WARRANTY - no other Ford truck or diesel from any manufacturer will come anywhere close to that.

For convenience, you have 'at home' or 'at work' charging, for the most part. NO stops at fuel stations on a regular basis, EVER. Yes, travel will sometimes require a DC Fast Charger, but those are becoming more available, and in more places, and at greater speeds, over time. We have to give it time to mature.

I'll also bet that your utility will soon devise an 'EV charging' time-of-use plan as there is a lot of pressure on governments and utilities to 'embrace' the EV change that is coming. I have seen more DC Fast chargers pop up in Georgia at Utility Companies than anywhere else. If we have utilities and Ford dealers doing more of this, the travel equation will get even better.

but, in the end, the owner has to feel comfortable in whatever decision is made. Sometimes it's NOT about costs, or time, or warranty, it's just about what we already 'know'. The legacy 'gas' engine vehicle environment has been around for 100 years, and it's not going away anytime soon. The cost of fuel, though, is another story.

I'll also add, as a comparison between a diesel and an EV: you never need to 'IDLE'... your truck is simply 'ON' all the time, if that's what you wish. A/c and Heat and other needs, including ProPower, is at your service 24/7... no idling needed.

and, I just thought of something else: A set of Chargepoint DC Fast Chargers in Dothan Alabama, from Dothan Utilities, only charges 7 1/2 cents p/kwh - and that's for DC Fast Charging. An amazing 'low-cost' option if you travel thru the area, or even if you are an owner LIVING near there!

 

[Toby57]

Did you add anything to your house for charging the Lighting?

 

[broncoaz]

What you have forgotten, in your equation, though, is MAINTENANCE, and WARRANTY, and CONVENIENCE.

While you might have to stop more often and longer to fill an EV, while traveling, you also have to remember the out-of-service time and costs in oil changes, powertrain maintenance, and all the future 'legacy' diesel and/or gas engine maintenance costs.
Both vehicles will need tires, that's a simple comparison, but the EV also will not need NEAR the frequent brake pad changes, due to the amount of regeneration.

Other than those two similarities, the EV Lightning needs NO other maintenance. All that is not even considering that the EV Lightning comes with a 8 YEAR 100,000 miles WARRANTY - no other Ford truck or diesel from any manufacturer will come anywhere close to that.

For convenience, you have 'at home' or 'at work' charging, for the most part. NO stops at fuel stations on a regular basis, EVER. Yes, travel will sometimes require a DC Fast Charger, but those are becoming more available, and in more places, and at greater speeds, over time. We have to give it time to mature.

I'll also bet that your utility will soon devise an 'EV charging' time-of-use plan as there is a lot of pressure on governments and utilities to 'embrace' the EV change that is coming. I have seen more DC Fast chargers pop up in Georgia at Utility Companies than anywhere else. If we have utilities and Ford dealers doing more of this, the travel equation will get even better.

but, in the end, the owner has to feel comfortable in whatever decision is made. Sometimes it's NOT about costs, or time, or warranty, it's just about what we already 'know'. The legacy 'gas' engine vehicle environment has been around for 100 years, and it's not going away anytime soon. The cost of fuel, though, is another story.

I'll also add, as a comparison between a diesel and an EV: you never need to 'IDLE'... your truck is simply 'ON' all the time, if that's what you wish. A/c and Heat and other needs, including ProPower, is at your service 24/7... no idling needed.

and, I just thought of something else: A set of Chargepoint DC Fast Chargers in Dothan Alabama, from Dothan Utilities, only charges 7 1/2 cents p/kwh - and that's for DC Fast Charging. An amazing 'low-cost' option if you travel thru the area, or even if you are an owner LIVING near there!

I did weigh these points in my calculations. I would be in a position to have to charge both at home and at the office 2-3 days per week due to the distances I drive. I might be fast charging more than once per week as work mileage dictates. As I addressed in the first post, there is no deadline for the utilities here to move to a time of use model here. With the company fleet of 150 trucks I have lots of data on ICE maintenance costs and downtime. Maintenance on the diesel 1500 is estimated $4400 to 100K miles (statistically one set of tires, one full set of brakes, one trans service, 2 fuel filters, and 13 oil changes) so certainly more than the Lightning which I calculated at $2600 to 100K (minimal issues and two sets of tires due to the weight and torque). I drove both trucks back to back for a week, I do like the interface and other benefits of the EV, but I don’t despise the diesel truck’s characteristics. One plus for the diesel is not even thinking about how much range using the climate control system might cost me especially in the winter. I really wanted to make the EV work, and it’s awesome, but it doesn’t work for me yet and the costs don’t pencil out at 34.1 cents/kWh. Diesel prices will fluctuate and trend upwards, but it seems like electricity here is on the March upwards as well.

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