Confirmed: Preconditioning matters

[Stlww18]

Just in case anyone had doubts how much preconditioning helps on cold days...Lightning Pro SR

Down near freezing last two days, my truck didn't precondition (user error) and my normal range of 206 miles at 90% charge dropped to between 180-190 miles from cold start.

This morning, near freezing, truck preconditioned and showed 210 miles of range. Yes, it's kinda all a guess on range, but at least it confirms that there is a difference in the truck's calculated capacity.

Also, it's glorious going outside to a fully warmed truck.

Sponsored

 

[boggle]

OBDII provides battery temperatures, right? Would love to get temp curve during conditioning and current draw of the resistive elements (if possible) at different ambient temperatures.

 

[RickLightning]

OBDII provides battery temperatures, right? Would love to get temp curve during conditioning and current draw of the resistive elements (if possible) at different ambient temperatures.

What would be interesting that I've not seen is the energy used to precondition (i.e. departure time) as opposed to remote start, as opposed to nothing, and the difference in energy used, along with the cost.

The few times I set a departure time for our Mach-E, it did indeed increase the range. But it uses a lot of juice. On 3/12/22 I did a departure time, and it ran for 1:20, using just under 5kWh. That's about 75 cents. Worth it for the increased range (see below), but if I didn't need the range and just did a remote start to get the cabin warm, it would be interesting to see the difference in energy used during an identical drive of X miles.

Increased range assumptions:

- EA on the road is going to cost me $.31 per kWh plus tax, call it $0.33. If I spend $.75 at home, that's equivalent to 2.3 kWh on the road. In the winter, if I got 2.3 miles per kWh, that's the cost of going 5.3 miles. But my range increased a lot more than 5.3 miles so it was a win.

 

[boggle]

What would be interesting that I've not seen is the energy used to precondition (i.e. departure time) as opposed to remote start, as opposed to nothing, and the difference in energy used, along with the cost.

The few times I set a departure time for our Mach-E, it did indeed increase the range. But it uses a lot of juice. On 3/12/22 I did a departure time, and it ran for 1:20, using just under 5kWh. That's about 75 cents. Worth it for the increased range (see below), but if I didn't need the range and just did a remote start to get the cabin warm, it would be interesting to see the difference in energy used during an identical drive of X miles.

Increased range assumptions:

- EA on the road is going to cost me $.31 per kWh plus tax, call it $0.33. If I spend $.75 at home, that's equivalent to 2.3 kWh on the road. In the winter, if I got 2.3 miles per kWh, that's the cost of going 5.3 miles. But my range increased a lot more than 5.3 miles so it was a win.

Curious in the diminishing returns as well. Especially as many of us here in NE experience cold that would warrant preconditioning but are paying >$0.30 per kWh at home. At a certain point it won't be worth preconditioning. Obviously worth it if I'm trying to squeeze maximum range, but if I know I only have a short commute that day I will probably just remote heat the cab as you mention.

 

[LightningShow]

It's not clear to me that this improves actual range (calculated range aside). My intuition tells me it's the opposite. You're warming up the battery by expending energy that could been used to drive. The battery would warm up on its own simply by driving.

Granted, preconditioning is worth it for other reasons but if you're just talking about the maximum distance you could theoretically travel then I would assume starting cold is marginally better.

 

[F150ROD]

It's not clear to me that this improves actual range (calculated range aside). My intuition tells me it's the opposite. You're warming up the battery by expending energy that could been used to drive. The battery would warm up on its own simply by driving.

Granted, preconditioning is worth it for other reasons but if you're just talking about the maximum distance you could theoretically travel then I would assume starting cold is marginally better.

But you’re using energy while still being plugged in, so the energy being used is being replenished as it’s preconditioning.

 

[LightningShow]

But you’re using energy while still being plugged in, so the energy being used is being replenished as it’s preconditioning.

I was talking about the overall energy efficiency of the practice. Obviously you'll have more range if you add more energy to the truck. That doesn't mean that pre-conditioning is more efficient. What if you're parked at work and don't have the truck plugged in? Then would you precondition for "more range"?

 

[RickLightning]

It's not clear to me that this improves actual range (calculated range aside). My intuition tells me it's the opposite. You're warming up the battery by expending energy that could been used to drive. The battery would warm up on its own simply by driving.

Granted, preconditioning is worth it for other reasons but if you're just talking about the maximum distance you could theoretically travel then I would assume starting cold is marginally better.

Your assumption is incorrect. The range of an EV at a battery temp of say 40 degrees (the vehicle will warm it, by using the battery, if it starts to drop further) is significantly worse than one that is warmed up.

Not a scientific test, but:

In August 2021 I drove my 2021 Premium to Florida over 2 days. First leg of the trip was to Huber Heights, Ohio. I got 2.94 miles per kWh on the first leg.

In March 2022, I drove a similar southern route, stopping at Huber Heights, temps around 20 degrees. I also stopped at a car dealer 45 minutes in. The first 45 minutes I got 2.99 miles per kWh, similar to the summer. Then, the next leg, I got 2.3 to Huber Heights. That's because the battery cooled while sitting at the car dealer charging up, and during the drive.

Similarly, from Huber Heights to Georgetown, KY, I got 2.8 in the summer and 2.35 in March when it was 20 degrees.

There is no doubt that it improves range.


If I use 2.9 for summer and 2.3 for winter, that's a drop of nearly ~20%. If I drive from 100% down to 20%, that's 80% of my 91kWh battery, or 73kWh.

73 * 2.9 = 212 miles
73 x 2.3 = 168 miles

Rough cost to get that improved range - 5 miles
Range improvement - 44 miles

 

[RickLightning]

I was talking about the overall energy efficiency of the practice. Obviously you'll have more range if you add more energy to the truck. That doesn't mean that pre-conditioning is more efficient. What if you're parked at work and don't have the truck plugged in? Then would you precondition for "more range"?

You can't, because you're not plugged in.

 

[RickLightning]

It's not clear to me that this improves actual range (calculated range aside). My intuition tells me it's the opposite. You're warming up the battery by expending energy that could been used to drive. The battery would warm up on its own simply by driving.

Granted, preconditioning is worth it for other reasons but if you're just talking about the maximum distance you could theoretically travel then I would assume starting cold is marginally better.

Not quite. In fact, if you measure battery temp at peak DC charging, it's 90+ degrees. Then drive in 20 degree weather and it will drop to 40 degrees.

 

[vagabond7846]

Are there multiple ways to trigger preconditioning?

Option 1) Plug in the truck and set a departure time

Is there another simple way to do this? Does 'remote start' while plugged in also work? I mainly ask because setting an adhoc departure time or adjusting an existing one is not simple due to the way its implemented in the app.

In addition, how do you know when its done preconditioning?

edit: adding ford's link: https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/electric-vehicles/ev-range/preconditioning-overview/

 

[RickLightning]

Are there multiple ways to trigger preconditioning?

Option 1) Plug in the truck and set a departure time

Is there another simple way to do this? Does 'remote start' while plugged in also work? I mainly ask because setting an adhoc departure time or adjusting an existing one is not simple due to the way its implemented in the app.

In addition, how do you know when its done preconditioning?

edit: adding ford's link: https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/electric-vehicles/ev-range/preconditioning-overview/

No, there is no way to precondition, TODAY, without setting a departure time. Remote Start does NOT precondition the battery.

It's done when you reach the departure time... It chooses when to start to reach that time.

 

[Stlww18]

Are there multiple ways to trigger preconditioning?

Option 1) Plug in the truck and set a departure time

Is there another simple way to do this? Does 'remote start' while plugged in also work? I mainly ask because setting an adhoc departure time or adjusting an existing one is not simple due to the way its implemented in the app.

In addition, how do you know when its done preconditioning?

edit: adding ford's link: https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/electric-vehicles/ev-range/preconditioning-overview/

Right now it can only be done by setting a "Departure" time in the charge settings.

 

[Stlww18]

It's not clear to me that this improves actual range (calculated range aside). My intuition tells me it's the opposite. You're warming up the battery by expending energy that could been used to drive. The battery would warm up on its own simply by driving.

Granted, preconditioning is worth it for other reasons but if you're just talking about the maximum distance you could theoretically travel then I would assume starting cold is marginally better.

On my normal commute, it doesn't make a difference. In a few weeks when I drive 3 hours to go deer hunting, that extra 20-30 miles of range will be nice to have.

More than anything, I like that it warms the cabin for me!

 

[LightningShow]

Your assumption is incorrect. The range of an EV at a battery temp of say 40 degrees (the vehicle will warm it, by using the battery, if it starts to drop further) is significantly worse than one that is warmed up.

Not a scientific test, but:

In August 2021 I drove my 2021 Premium to Florida over 2 days. First leg of the trip was to Huber Heights, Ohio. I got 2.94 miles per kWh on the first leg.

In March 2022, I drove a similar southern route, stopping at Huber Heights, temps around 20 degrees. I also stopped at a car dealer 45 minutes in. The first 45 minutes I got 2.99 miles per kWh, similar to the summer. Then, the next leg, I got 2.3 to Huber Heights. That's because the battery cooled while sitting at the car dealer charging up, and during the drive.

Similarly, from Huber Heights to Georgetown, KY, I got 2.8 in the summer and 2.35 in March when it was 20 degrees.

There is no doubt that it improves range.


If I use 2.9 for summer and 2.3 for winter, that's a drop of nearly ~20%. If I drive from 100% down to 20%, that's 80% of my 91kWh battery, or 73kWh.

73 * 2.9 = 212 miles
73 x 2.3 = 168 miles

Rough cost to get that improved range - 5 miles
Range improvement - 44 miles

I don't disagree with any of your general assertions, I just don't think that they make that much of a difference in the end when you control of all of the variables. Of course, if you can only precondition while plugged in it's a moot point since you're adding energy to account for any potential loss of efficiency in any case.

Sponsored