Comparison: EA vs CP vs EVgo trip charging

[hturnerfamily]

' at night ', or actually VERY early morning, is a SPOT ON revalation to DC Fast Charging if you have the ability to run during those 'overnight' timeframes - we just did this on our current trip start: left our house @ 9:30pm, arriving at Chargepoint Chevy Dealer at about 11:30pm...crickets, nice.

then landing later at EA, very slowly, at about 1:30am. While we were still not the only ones there, since it sits next to a row of Superchargers were several Tesla came and went, we were the only ones actually CHARGING at EA. Funny, a Polestar II was sitting there, plugged in, with the #2 EA unit screaming that they were 45 minutes past their finish time, and would be charged accordingly. No one ever came to unplug.

The cool of the night while driving didn't hurt, either, and so much less 'traffic' along the way.

You mentioned WALMART's new DC charging opportunity, and I've lauded this idea every since I even reserved my LIGHTNING back on the first day in MAY 2021. Walmart has no reason NOT to build out the EV charging infrastructure in their HUGE, and many times, unused portions of their parking lots. I hope their layouts will be practical for us huge EVs, and while towing... and I hope they provide an easy and reliable and cost-effective solution. Let's hope their pricing is transparent, and by the kwh - not by time. Walmarts are not in every city or town, but their footprint sets in motion one of the biggest boons for us EV owners - when this comes to fruition, traveling will be a breeze.

Sponsored

 

[hturnerfamily]

Disclosure: I am a ChargePoint stockholder.

Here is the thing about many ChargePoint installations: They are based on the company's very successful CPE-250 chargers that can do both paired and balanced charging when properly provisioned and programmed to do so. The thing is, not many site operators actually set up the CPE-250s to do that (it costs more in infrastructure and power, especially demand charges). This leads to frequent disappointment at charging speed.

That said, what is cool about the CPE-250s is their redundant modular design. There are multiple power modules in each dispenser; if one fails, the other still works and the charger will operate at a partial power level. And replacing the module takes only minutes. This is why you rarely see a ChargePoint DCFC completely dead, which sure beats the miserable ABB chargers that EA uses, which are often DOA, especially in hot climates.

My initial take on CHARGEPOINT was that they were especially appreciated in rural areas, especially since most of their units are hosted by GEORGIA POWER, or similar EMC or Utilities in the Georgia, Alabama, Florida regions we tend to travel thru...
BUT... one thing I've noticed recently is the pricing: by the hour... at least all the ones we've visited.
Pricing by the hour is NOT your friend when you are charging at only 52kwh speed and need a LOT of charge to reach your next destination, as compared to 'by the kwh' of charge supplied - which doesn't relate to the amount of time you sit there. Many CP units are $15 per hour, which is more than DOUBLE this dealer's unit, and some dealers, like Mercedes, are by the kwh, but are at an EXTREME pricing of $1 for every one of those kwh you pump - that's just CRAZY.


EA tends to be mostly by the kwh of power supplied, and with their EXTREMELY FAST 135-152kwh power I've seen in my truck, recently, it is the PREFERRED fee option.... EXCEPT when it comes to the PRICE PER KWH.
Price Per Kwh can also run your pocket DRY when the pricing is too high, no matter the SPEED.

So, what we have is a desire for pricing by the amount of power provided, just like you pay for gas by the 'gallon', and the desire for fair, competitive, and reasonable PRICE PER KWH, such as when you can compare gas station per gallon price posted.

On this trip, the first and 'new' CHARGEPOINT at the Chevy Dealer was priced by time, yes, BUT it was priced more according to it's slow SPEED, which was nice. This equated to 12cents p/kwh.
The EA units, though, while FAST, were priced by the kwh, which is preferred, but NOT when the pricing is so high, at 48cents p/kwh, or 50cents after taxes.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

BUT... one thing I've noticed recently is the pricing: by the hour... at least all the ones we've visited.
Pricing by the hour is NOT your friend when you are charging at only 52kwh speed and need a LOT of charge to reach your next destination, as compared to 'by the kwh' of charge supplied - which doesn't relate to the amount of time you sit there. Many CP units are $15 per hour, which is more than DOUBLE this dealer's unit, and some dealers, like Mercedes, are by the kwh, but are at an EXTREME pricing of $1 for every one of those kwh you pump - that's just CRAZY.

In most of the cases I know of, per minute charging is the result of either the local utility or the state. Some state laws (or local utility regulations) prohibit the resale of electricity by the kilowatt (the logic is that to do so makes the seller their own private, unregulated utility). To get around that legal problem, per minute charging was instituted. Some states/local jurisdictions now realize they need to amend their rules/laws to deal with EV charging because it is both more understandable and fairer to charge by the kilowatt.

Unfortunately, some locations and networks take advantage of the situation. Francis Charging in the midwest/west is frequently believed to deliberately slow down their chargers to make more money at locations that charge by the minute. I don't think there is any concrete evidence of this, but...

 

[hturnerfamily]

yes, and I recently caught a tv show interviewing a local convenience store/gas station/diesel station owner complaining that while they, as a business, with many locations, wanted to 'join in' on the EV Charging Infrastructure build-out by bringing in their own DC Fast Chargers at their locations, they were told that Georgia laws do not allow them to do that: Georgia PSC(Public Service Commission), who regulates power, natural gas, etc., does not allow electrical power to be 'resold' by anyone - it HAS to come directly from the utility, which seems to be mostly Georgia Power.

Now, you ask, of course, how then, does anyone other than Georgia Power, who hosts many CHARGEPOINT stations across the state, then get into the 'DC Fast Charging' business??

Well, first, Georgia Power is not the ONLY power utility in the state... there are many. MEAG, which is the Municipal Electric Association of Georgia, which is owned by many smaller towns, and cities, actually itself owns parts of many of the power plants that Georgia Power seems to be given all the credit for, such as the NUCLEAR Plant Vogle, and many of the other coal powered plants around the state.(yes, COAL is actually, still, by far, the biggest power for 'power plants')... There is also Oglethorpe power, Dalton Power, and all the many EMC around the state. Each of these are allowed to provide DC Charging options. Some examples are CAROL COUNTY EMC, with two at their headquarters in Carrolton. FLINT EMC, with one at it's headquarters in Reynolds, and many of the others with simple Level 2 chargers.

Secondly, Level 2 chargers ARE available at hotels and other places all over the state that are not hosted by a utility, but these also might not be charging a fee, or may be able to charge a fee by 'time', rather than by the kwh.

'Passing-thru electricity cost'('reselling') may be where the dividing line is when it comes to 'who' is allowed to provide the 'sale' of electricity - a fee, whether a flat fee, or a 'timed' fee, may be the only way around this, at least currently.

I suspect that the complaint by the business owner was one of passing-thru an accurate price to the end user, the EV owner, and not a 'fee' based on timing. Every EV charges at a different rate, curve, speed, etc., so a flat or timed fee does NOT seem to be a long-term solution. The Georgia PSC has heard from those who want to take on DC Fast Charging infrastructure(and I'm sure Walmart and other corporations are some of those), and is considering 'how' to modify their rules to provide for this build-out that will allow for pass-thru of cost of electricity. No one is 'reselling' electricty, rather they are simply providing their equipment for the end-user to PURCHASE that power from the utility.

 

[Maquis]

In most of the cases I know of, per minute charging is the result of either the local utility or the state. Some state laws (or local utility regulations) prohibit the resale of electricity by the kilowatt (the logic is that to do so makes the seller their own private, unregulated utility). To get around that legal problem, per minute charging was instituted. Some states/local jurisdictions now realize they need to amend their rules/laws to deal with EV charging because it is both more understandable and fairer to charge by the kilowatt.

Unfortunately, some locations and networks take advantage of the situation. Francis Charging in the midwest/west is frequently believed to deliberately slow down their chargers to make more money at locations that charge by the minute. I don't think there is any concrete evidence of this, but...

I’ve actually had pretty good experiences at Frances Energy. And they have been switching to price per kWh in states that allow it.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

I’ve actually had pretty good experiences at Frances Energy. And they have been switching to price per kWh in states that allow it.

Honestly, my personal experiences with Frances have either been ok (several stops at the DCFC station in Roland, OK off I-40) or not-ok (their DCFC at Clines Corner in New Mexico - the charger simply wouldn't initiate). When ok, their price per minute was fair given I was getting decent (up to 122 kW) speeds and I stopped charging before 80%. As for Cline's Corner... it was a convenience stop and I had plenty of charge to reach my destination, Santa Fe.

The best per-minute deal I have ever gotten was a couple times at the EA station in west Amarillo, TX. I don't recall what EA was charging per minute, but when I did the math the electricity was about 6¢/kW (mostly because the charger peaked at over 150 kW). But that pricing evaporated with EA's changes in August; my last trip it was the usual 36¢/kW.

 

[jdmackes]

Your post was an interesting read. I do a fair amount of road tripping in my 2023 SR Pro - about 8000+ miles on the open road (out of 15000+ total), including 10 trips of more than 500 miles, with four of 1600+ miles. A lot of DCFC charging sessions (60+ on ElectrifyAmerica alone). Your experiences (sans the trailer - I haven't towed yet) are similar to mine.

I hate - ABSOLUTELY HATE - EA. It is a worthless, shameless company. On one recent road trip, I made six EA stops; at EVERY ONE OF THEM I had to plug-hop to get a working charger. At one stop in New Mexico where there were ten dispensers, I had to move the Lightning FOUR TIMES to get a charge. Both J.D. Power and Rate-Your-Charge have EA at rock bottom, well behind its competitors. I am a testimonial as to why: Their chargers don't f@#king work. Add to that the cramped design of their diagonal layouts that might be ok for Kia crossovers, but not full-size trucks; the lack of sun/rain shades over the chargers; their multiple price increases this year; widespread down-rating of output (especially when it is hot), etc. etc. If I were the CEO of EA, I'd have to kill myself. But instead, he is just cheerfully doing the bidding of his deceitful VW overlords - which is clearly to do the minimum necessary to meet the requirements of the court-ordered consent decree for Dieselgate.

But there is hope. I think recent announcements by Circle K and Walmart are especially interesting - both are entering the branded DC fast charging station space. At Walmart, we will see the first truly national charging network, reaching rural locations now ignored. As for Circle K, they already have some locations open and people are reporting generally good experiences. Most folks don't know that Circle K is an international company, and they have a major presence in Norway, where EV uptake is the highest in the world. In Europe, they are rolling out combo EV/ICE travel centers that are very nice. The picture below is a real place - now they need to bring that to the United States:

I charged at a circle K on my way to florida, charger started right up, no issues, max charge and decent price. I think it was a little more expensive than EA if you had the monthly pass, but circle K didn't require one.

Honestly, all I want is a damn charging system that costs the same all the time and we know what it will be at all times. No time of day charges, just give me what it will be. No connection fees, no monthly passes, none of that crap. Tell me what it is per KWH and I'm good.

 

[jdmackes]

Disclosure: I am a ChargePoint stockholder.

Here is the thing about many ChargePoint installations: They are based on the company's very successful CPE-250 chargers that can do both paired and balanced charging when properly provisioned and programmed to do so. The thing is, not many site operators actually set up the CPE-250s to do that (it costs more in infrastructure and power, especially demand charges). This leads to frequent disappointment at charging speed.

That said, what is cool about the CPE-250s is their redundant modular design. There are multiple power modules in each dispenser; if one fails, the other still works and the charger will operate at a partial power level. And replacing the module takes only minutes. This is why you rarely see a ChargePoint DCFC completely dead, which sure beats the miserable ABB chargers that EA uses, which are often DOA, especially in hot climates.

I had seen that about their chargers. Just a quick pop out of the module and you can fix it easily, or even upgrade a station to be able to charge faster. Seemed like a forward thinking idea honestly

Sponsored