LVB “normal” state of charge?

[TaxmanHog]

For what it is worth, high-tech catch-22?

Right now, the LV on-line says: 72%

Have you tried, shutting down your paired mobile devices and moved the key-fob's far from the truck, I've had luck in the past doing this, just another bit of witchcraft to consider.

My thinking is that Fordpass or FOB's are tickling the truck's systems, which interferes with the update process.

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[chl]

Have you tried, shutting down your paired mobile devices and moved the key-fob's far from the truck, I've had luck in the past doing this, just another bit of witchcraft to consider.

My thinking is that Fordpass or FOB's are tickling the truck's systems, which interferes with the update process.

Thanks for the idea, but yea, I thought about that and turned off the tablet paired with the truck, and I always keep my key fob inside an aluminum foil RF blocker when not in use which blocks the FOB signal very effectively.

No luck though, but the LV battery had fallen below 80% I think.

I have been doing the tin-foil trick since a neighbors car was stolen when someone apparently cloned the FOB signal, followed them home and came back in the middle of the night and stole the car silently a few years ago. I also read it has happened to quite a few F-150s because they are popular trucks.

I am going to see if by leaving the truck on FULL ACCESSORY mode (and locked, lights off, etc.) for a few hours I can get the LV up to close to 100% SOC.

In the half-hour I have had it on, it rose from 70% to 73% according to the Ford Account Dashboard anyway, so it will take a while.

What a PITA.

EDIT/UPDATE: now the Ford Account Dashboard is reporting 47% all of a sudden!
Going to plug it into the FCSP and try it that way.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I am going to see if by leaving the truck on FULL ACCESSORY mode (and locked, lights off, etc.) for a few hours I can get the LV up to close to 100% SOC.

In the half-hour I have had it on, it rose from 70% to 73% according to the Ford Account Dashboard anyway, so it will take a while.

What a PITA.

EDIT/UPDATE: now the Ford Account Dashboard is reporting 47% all of a sudden!
Going to plug it into the FCSP and try it that way.

You will have better LVB charging by having the truck "Running" in drive ready mode, set HVAC fan on medium high.

 

[chl]

You will have better LVB charging by having the truck "Running" in drive ready mode, set HVAC fan on medium high.

I tried that the other day but w/out the HVAC setting, but before the CSP replacement of sensor.
Will try again...

 

[chl]

Going to try it with 1) the truck plugged into the FCSP, 2) on in drive ready mode and 3) AC running.
Hope it works this time to charge the LVB.

 

[chl]

The LVB charge level at Ford Account Dashboard jumped from 47% about 21 minutes ago to 68% after turning on the truck, plugging it in to FCSP in drive ready mode with AC running for about 15 minutes.

Seems unlikely that info on-line is correct...but who knows.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Going to try it with 1) the truck plugged into the FCSP, 2) on in drive ready mode and 3) AC running.
Hope it works this time to charge the LVB.

Unplugged is what meant above, but being plugged in allows the HVB charger contactors to close for energy transfer from OBC to HVB and will also activate the DC/DC persistently rather than intermittently during accessory only mode.

 

[chl]

By the way (from Ford document) several pages about the 12v power system:
--------------
While ignition is off, if 12V battery reaches 40% state of charge, then vehicle waits 48 hours , before the DC-DC transfers 300 Watt-hours of energy to recharge the 12V battery. The HV power comes from either HV battery or wall power while on plug. If the 12V battery state of charge reaches 30%, then this HV to LV energy transfer happens immediately with no delay.

Note:
• This system was designed to recharge 12V battery while the vehicle was left parked for many days either on or off plug or occasional drain from customer usage. The 12V battery will wear out if this energy transfer is completed daily due to aftermarket loads draining the 12V battery down to 40% or lower.
• Vehicle has 35 Amp-hour AGM 12V Battery

WARNING: This battery pack should only be serviced by an authorized electric vehicle technician. Improper handling can result in personal injury or death.
WARNING: Working in this area of the vehicle may result in serious personal injury or damage to a vehicle. Before working in this vehicle, the high voltage power must be disconnected.
NOTE: This document is a selected high-level overview of the power supply system. Questions should be directed to the Body Builder Advisory Service. Ford Motor Company is not responsible for any modifications of the 2023 F-150 Lightning Pro.
-------------
HV to LV Energy system is providing energy transfer from the HV battery to the low voltage battery to prevent non-start condition when vehicle has been keyed-off for extended time. This is to avoid non-start conditions of empty LV battery and the system is only available to electrified plug-in vehicle only. The feature document is to provide high level requirements to develop functional requirements and implementation.

Conditions where High Voltage (HV) to Low Voltage (LV) Energy Transfer is not supported

When the gear selection is not park (e.g. reverse, neutral, drive, sport etc.) the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall deactivate and/or stop the energy transfer process.

When the ignition status is not key-off (e.g. key-on, remote on etc.) the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall deactivate and/or stop the energy transfer process and reset lock out period.

When OTA update is in the process with a software update (non-interruptible state), the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall proceed after the Over the Air (OTA) software update is complete.

When HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature is in the process of an energy transfer, the OTA update shall stop the energy transfer and proceed with the OTA software update.

When an internal error and/or fault is detected (e.g. HV to LV DTC etc.) the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall immediately deactivate and/or stop the energy transfer process.

The HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall be enabled to provide energy transfer when vehicle is in “customer mode” or “transport mode”. The feature shall be disabled in all other lifecycle modes.

The customer shall be notified in the vehicle and/or mobile app of the HV to LV Energy Transfer Status if the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature occurred because of battery consumption conditions (battery EOL, high KOL, park lamps active, hazard lamps active).

- The 12V battery needs to power modules and close the HV battery contactors upon key-on.

- If the 12V battery is depleted (very low SOC), it will not be capable of performing this function. With no ability to close the HV battery contactors, the vehicle will not start. This is true even when the HV battery is fully charged.
-----
ENTRY CONDITIONS FOR HIGH VOLAGE TO LOW VOLTAGE ENERGY TRANSFER

Normal Entry Conditions:
• The following are entry conditions that must be met to initiate an Energy Transfer Request:
• Ignition = Off
• Parked Gear
• No Error or Faults Detected in HV to LV Energy Transfer System (e.g. DTCs etc.)
• No OTA software update in process
• HV Battery SOC and Power Limits > 15% HV SOC
• LV Battery Temp > -15°C
• *** LV Battery SOC <= 40%
• *** Minimum Lock Out Period – 48 hours
• Since ignition off, and last energy transfer
*** Indicate special conditions where can be over written
ENTRY CONDITIONS FOR HIGH VOLAGE TO LOW VOLTAGE ENERGY TRANSFER (continued)
Special Conditions:
• 1.) If Customer On-Demand Request is detected (e.g. OTA On-Demand)
• Then request will be honored with any LV Battery SOC.
• [Overrides LV Battery SOC <= 40% condition.]
• But other conditions must apply before sending energy transfer request
• OTA (Over The Air) On-Demand Request provides option for LV battery energy top off before OTA software update
• 2.) If LV Battery SOC =< 40% and detection of any of the following special error conditions:
• Battery End of Life (EOL)
• High Key Off Load (KOL)
• Park Lamps Active / Hazard Lamps Active
• Then will initiate energy transfer request.
• [Overrides 48 hour delay limit]
• But other conditions must apply before sending energy transfer request.
• Special error conditions and customer on-demand noted above are excluded from 48 hour lock out period.
• 3.) If LV Battery SOC =< 30%; extreme threshold - will initiate transfer request
• [Overrides 48 hour delay limit]
-------
12V Battery Charging System

The 12V batter is charged by the DC-DC converter control module. The Battery Management System (BMS) continuously monitors the battery state of charge condition and provides the BCM with this information. The BCM communicates this information to the PCM over the HS-CAN1. The PCM communicates the battery desire setpoint to the DC-DC converter control module which supplies the necessary charge voltage to the 12V battery.

12V Battery Management System

NOTICE: When any vehicle module is being programmed, connect an external battery charger to make sure the module programming is complete without interruption due to the load shedding feature becoming active. The external battery charger must maintain a system voltage above 13 volts. This may require a charger setting higher than the lowest charge setting. The external battery charger negative connection must be made to an engine or vehicle chassis ground and not the negative battery terminal.. If the connection is to the negative battery terminal, load shedding may begin and module programming may be corrupted. After charging has begun, start the engine to clear any load shed states and then turn the engine off the proceed with
programming.

Charging and Jumping

Do not charge or jump start the vehicle by connecting to the battery negative terminal. Refer to the Owners Guide for more information.
If the vehicle has been jump started, test the battery condition.
If the 12V vehicle battery has been charged by connecting to the battery negative terminal, do not reset the Battery Monitoring System.
-------
Battery Monitoring Sensor

The Battery Monitoring Sensor continuously monitors the conditionand state of charge of the 12V battery and provides the BCM with this informatino. The Battery Monitoring Sensor also estimates losses in the battery capacity over time. The Battery Monitoring Sensor should only be reset when the batter is replaced. It is urgently recommended that the replacement battery has
the exact same specification as the origina battery. If it does not, the accuracy of the Battery Monitoring Sensor outputs will be compromised.
The Battery Monitoring is clamped directly to the negative terminal of the battery and grounds to the vehicle at the chassis ground connection point through the negative battery cable and eyelet. It is part of the negative battery cable and cannot be serviced separately.
External customer loads must only be connectred to the vehicle at the customer battery connection point. If an eternal customer load is connected at the negative battery post, the Battery Monitoring Sensor accuracy cannot be guaranteed. It is recommended that the Battery Monitoring Sensor pole clamp is not removed unless a battery replacment is required. Shoud the battery need to be isolated, this should be done by disconnecting the ground eyelet at the chassis ground.

Body Control Module (BCM)

The BCM monitors the Battery Monitoring Sensor and provides the PCM with battery state of charge information.

Powertrain Control Module (PCM)

The PCM provides desired voltage set point to the DC-DC converter control module.

Direct Current-Direct Current (DC-DC) Converter Control Module

The DC-DC converter control module is responsible for maintaining and charging the 12V battery. It is enabled when the high voltage battery contactors have closed, providing high-voltage power to the DC-DC converter control.
-----

 

[chl]

Unplugged is what meant above, but being plugged in allows the HVB charger contactors to close for energy transfer from OBC to HVB and will also activate the DC/DC persistently rather than intermittently during accessory only mode.

Thanks, I gathered something like that from some other thread about the LVB issues.

A bit inconvenient - blocking my driveway while plugged in - but if it works, I'll be glad.

 

[chl]

I found this interesting regarding the DC-DC transfer to LVB:

"...Special Conditions:
• 1.) If Customer On-Demand Request is detected (e.g. OTA On-Demand)
• Then request will be honored with any LV Battery SOC.
• [Overrides LV Battery SOC <= 40% condition.]
• But other conditions must apply before sending energy transfer request
• OTA (Over The Air) On-Demand Request provides option for LV battery energy top off before OTA software update..."

So some code apparently exists to top-off the LVB before an OTA software update.

Why is it not effective is the question?

 

[chl]

The LVB charge level at Ford Account Dashboard jumped from 47% about 21 minutes ago to 68% after turning on the truck, plugging it in to FCSP in drive ready mode with AC running for about 15 minutes.

Seems unlikely that info on-line is correct...but who knows.

Still at 68% about 35 minutes later according to account dashboard.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Still at 68% about 35 minutes later according to account dashboard.

I'm suspect of the platform data accuracy, I just looked at mine, showed 91% this after the truck sitting dormant/off for 3.5 hours, then I exercised the doors unlock/lock, waited 15 seconds, then refresh the account status, still shows solid 91% and again after reading your update I check again and it's still 91%.

I don't know if Ford relies on MS cloud services, but they are have Azure issues today, I thought maybe they used AWS for cloud.

 

[chl]

I found this interesting regarding the DC-DC transfer to LVB:

"...Special Conditions:
• 1.) If Customer On-Demand Request is detected (e.g. OTA On-Demand)
• Then request will be honored with any LV Battery SOC.
• [Overrides LV Battery SOC <= 40% condition.]
• But other conditions must apply before sending energy transfer request
• OTA (Over The Air) On-Demand Request provides option for LV battery energy top off before OTA software update..."

So some code apparently exists to top-off the LVB before an OTA software update.

Why is it not effective is the question?

Maybe the Ford OTA Updates are not being sent out with the command to top off the battery?

That would be an easy fix @Ford Motor Company

 

[chl]

I'm suspect of the platform data accuracy, I just looked at mine, showed 91% this after the truck sitting dormant/off for 3.5 hours, then I exercised the doors unlock/lock, waited 15 seconds, then refresh the account status, still shows solid 91% and again after reading your update I check again and it's still 91%.

I don't know if Ford relies on MS cloud services, but they are have Azure issues today, I thought maybe they used AWS for cloud.

Yea I wonder if the account dashboard is up-to-date and how often it is refreshed.

But whatever the level is/has been apparently it was not enough for the update to install.

I am going to leave the truck plugged in for the rest of the day if I can in accessory only mode and assume it will raise the LVB enough to get the update tonight.

If not, I'm going to schedule a service at the dealership to resolve this (my last resort).

Since code capability seems to be built in to the LV power management system to top off the LV battery before an OTA (according to the body builder doc) it seems like Ford should be doing that with their OTAs.
---
ENTRY CONDITIONS FOR HIGH VOLAGE TO LOW VOLTAGE ENERGY TRANSFER (continued)
Special Conditions:
• 1.) If Customer On-Demand Request is detected (e.g. OTA On-Demand)
• Then request will be honored with any LV Battery SOC.
• [Overrides LV Battery SOC <= 40% condition.]
• But other conditions must apply before sending energy transfer request
• OTA (Over The Air) On-Demand Request provides option for LV battery energy top off before OTA software update

 

[TaxmanHog]

Finally got a platform data update now 86% seconds after I remote started the HVAC system, getting ready to hit the road at 2pm

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