Are there any real bidirection chargers available?

[Garrik]

I heard about the Emporia V2X, then read about a number of other bidirection L2 chargers intended for home use. Are any of them, (ie I can buy one today) and capable of connecting to the Lightning other than the Ford one which apparently doesn't actually work?

The Emporia V2X, although announced for 2024 availability, seems to still be vaporware.

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[Maquis]

Bidirectional charging is not the same thing as backup power. Ford’s HIS is backup power only.

The standard for bidirectional is ISO 15118-20, which isn’t even finalized. So no, they don’t exist, except for some pilot projects that may or may not adhere the current standards.

 

[Garrik]

Bidirectional charging is not the same thing as backup power. Ford’s HIS is backup power only.

Can you please explain what the differences are?

 

[Maquis]

Can you please explain what the differences are?

Backup only runs your house when power is lost.

Bidirectional can feed energy to the grid or supplant use of the grid to gain cost advantages in cases of variable rate schedules or demand charges.

 

[Jim Lewis]

@tearitupsports seemed to imply in the following post: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...uit-home-integration-system.21562/post-458792 that the Delta inverter can feed solar power to the truck through the DC ports in the FCSP charger head used in backup power transfer. I'm a dummy compared to him, but I was wondering, especially based on comments by @Maquis in this thread, whether that's a "safe" thing to do?

 

[Tfarrell73]

Ford can barely get their own HIS to function with the truck. 3rd party devices won't be working bidirectionally anytime soon

 

[Garrik]

Ford can barely get their own HIS to function with the truck. 3rd party devices won't be working bidirectionally anytime soon

Interestingly this seems to be due to their attempts to build/sell/deploy a sort of complete all-in-one solution that is "fully integrated" with the truck and provides AC out the far end. I haven't heard anyone say that the electronics don't work - ie that electrons do not flow - but rather the issues seem to be primarily with the communications and integration among the various pieces of the solution (including the truck itself).

A much simpler offering would leave most of the integration to the user - which I would be completely fine with. Many of us are using the manifestly completely non-integrated solution of plugging a cord into the 240v bed outlet Even something that did basically that but did it through the charge connector would be better than nothing, and far easier for them to get working - even if it only provides DC I would be fine with it.

 

[Tfarrell73]

To even get basic functionality, you need the contactor to engage to connect the battery to the DC pins on the connector. That will require a software change by Ford

 

[v2h8484]

Are any of them, (ie I can buy one today) and capable of connecting to the Lightning other than the Ford one which apparently doesn't actually work?

No and it's extremely unlikely they will ever support the Lightning models sold so far. Frankly, it doesn't look good for the third-party (standards based) bidirectional chargers even when the standards are finalized. All available V2H vehicles so far are using proprietary solutions that appear to be intentionally very different from the draft standards. So, impractical hardware/software changes would likely be required to support standards based chargers.

 

[tearitupsports]

@tearitupsports seemed to imply in the following post: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...uit-home-integration-system.21562/post-458792 that the Delta inverter can feed solar power to the truck through the DC ports in the FCSP charger head used in backup power transfer. I'm a dummy compared to him, but I was wondering, especially based on comments by @Maquis in this thread, whether that's a "safe" thing to do?

Yes, the Ford HIS is fully bi-directional and that functionality is fully supported. I will attach an image from the manual below, but the inverter can go DC->AC from the truck and AC->DC to the truck while in off-grid mode. I have tested this for hours, and the M-professional app even shows animated power flow going into the truck when I have excess solar. While not advertised by Ford, it is fully supported by Delta. My setup is just like the picture below.
That being said, it is the only system that will work right now with the Lightning because as others pointed out, there is no standard officially ratified yet. People can't even agree if the home backup should be DC (external inverter) or AC (internal vehicle inverter).
For reference, the GM Energy system for the Silverado and their other vehicles is the exact same Delta hardware as the Ford system. The difference between the two systems is the vehicle itself and the charger and how they interface. The GM seems to be much better.
The next gen Ford home system is being built by a very reputable inverter brand and will have whole system support. Unfortunately it is being designed around NACS and wont work with our current trucks. Hopefully they will figure out a way to make a current truck interface or something.

 

[Jim Lewis]

Yes, the Ford HIS is fully bi-directional and that functionality is fully supported. I will attach an image from the manual below, but the inverter can go DC->AC from the truck and AC->DC to the truck while in off-grid mode.

I guess the part that I don't get is that if grid power is out, then isn't backup transfer power from the truck on? Then the idea must be, since the truck contacts are closed to have current flow from the truck's HVB battery, but the current demand in the backup load isn't that great, and the solar panels are providing excess AC power to the Delta BDI, the Delta inverter will be able to make so much DC power from the solar AC conversion that that DC power will flow out of the inverter into the truck. And since the truck can accept up to 150 kW from DCFC, there would be little danger of providing too much DC power from the Delta inverter via solar.

 

[tearitupsports]

I guess the part that I don't get is that if grid power is out, then isn't backup transfer power from the truck on? Then the idea must be, since the truck contacts are closed to have current flow from the truck's HVB battery, but the current demand in the backup load isn't that great, and the solar panels are providing excess AC power to the Delta BDI, the Delta inverter will be able to make so much DC power from the solar AC conversion that that DC power will flow out of the inverter into the truck. And since the truck can accept up to 150 kW from DCFC, there would be little danger of providing too much DC power from the Delta inverter via solar.

That is correct. When I did my tests it was in the morning and my excess solar was about 1.5kW. Not much more than level 1 charging.

 

[Maquis]

@tearitupsports seemed to imply in the following post: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...uit-home-integration-system.21562/post-458792 that the Delta inverter can feed solar power to the truck through the DC ports in the FCSP charger head used in backup power transfer. I'm a dummy compared to him, but I was wondering, especially based on comments by @Maquis in this thread, whether that's a "safe" thing to do?

It will be safe once ISO 15118-20 is finalized and both the vehicle & EVSE manufacturers make equipment that meets the standard.

 

[broncoaz]

I’m interested in this one from Enphase since I already have their hardware for my home solar. I don’t expect current vehicles to be compatible, so it won’t help me until we upgrade from our current Model Y and Lightning.

https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/bid...OgiPb46-IsEs-AE61acl4rLyWnc_CZ4q7uqM2M4H1SRqU

 

[Grease Lightning]

their own HIS to function

That’s cause that made the acronym HIS. If they would have made is a HERs then we all know it would have been done right….

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