Towing an Airstream with Gen14, and ProPower 7.2

[dog_tired]

Totally. There are those used cases of driving to remote destinations. But there’s also times where the extra range would just get you to your destination without a fuel stop.

My heart says yes but my mind is saying no... Cons to PowerBoost are reduced range and payload, pros are the built in generator and extra torque.

But on that last point of the extra boost, I’m hearing confusing reports on the electric motor in tow haul. I get it won’t run on its own but will it run alongside the gas engine when needed, like going uphill?

The hybrid electric motor definitely runs while towing in tow/haul mode. One of the forum members has recommended locking out 9th and 10th gear so that you're not continually spooling up the turbos, something which I'm going to try on the next trip.

Honestly, if you're worried about range and towing, maybe look towards an F250 diesel. It may make more sense for your needs.

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[Jack in Prescott]

"I’m hearing confusing reports on the electric motor in tow haul. I get it won’t run on its own but will it run alongside the gas engine when needed, like going uphill?"

The engineering and software side of the 'hybrid' design is something I've noticed Ford has stayed away from describing, yet it's one feature of a hybrid design that you'd think we would be highly interested in. Does the drive train software offer a 'mixed use' design where the motor assists the engine under certain conditions? One would assume so but I've yet to read about it. Perhaps others here can offer links to where this has been discussed by Ford?

Given what is reasonable for a half-ton truck to tow, I don't see the PB's payload necessarily being a big compromise. The compromise comes from buyers optioning up their order without using the options & trims weight schedule or buying off the lot a F150 that's been optioned to appeal widely by the dealer. That seems to be when there's disappointment with a 1300# or so payload. If Ford's docs are accurate, I'll end up with a very well optioned Lariat that will have a 1500#+ payload. I would think that's more than enough for most families of 4 while pulling a trailer with a 800# TW.. OTOH if a high trim level with all or most of the heavier option choices is a 'must' then, sure, the PB model will suffer from a smaller payload...but is that really different from any other brand's heavily optioned half-ton? (20" wheels & tires, spray-in liner, sun/moon roof and power tailgate, if memory serves, will exceed 200# of weight. The FX4 package, another popular option, is also hefty. All these options have their fans so, yes, it is a matter of first priorities with the PB).

 

[Jack in Prescott]

"The hybrid electric motor definitely runs while towing in tow/haul mode. One of the forum members has recommended locking out 9th and 10th gear so that you're not continually spooling up the turbos, something which I'm going to try on the next trip."

If we're thinking of the same post by another member, he was describing tow haul mode as automatically locking out 9th & 10th gear. He experimented with locking out 8th gear, which elevated rpm's a bit and consequently allowed the engine to provide the additional torque from those rpm's without calling on the turbo's as much. I didn't read into that a confirmation that the motor was assisting the engine. (Wasn't it daemonic3 that offered that description?) Seems to me his trailer has roughly a 8000# GVWR. That post left me wondering what my experimenting with gear and speed settings will produce for my 5800# GVWR trailer. It was a good example of how much there is for us to still learn about using this truck.

Jack

 

[dog_tired]

"The hybrid electric motor definitely runs while towing in tow/haul mode. One of the forum members has recommended locking out 9th and 10th gear so that you're not continually spooling up the turbos, something which I'm going to try on the next trip."

If we're thinking of the same post by another member, he was describing tow haul mode as automatically locking out 9th & 10th gear. He experimented with locking out 8th gear, which elevated rpm's a bit and consequently allowed the engine to provide the additional torque from those rpm's without calling on the turbo's as much. I didn't read into that a confirmation that the motor was assisting the engine. (Wasn't it daemonic3 that offered that description?) Seems to me his trailer has roughly a 8000# GVWR. That post left me wondering what my experimenting with gear and speed settings will produce for my 5800# GVWR trailer. It was a good example of how much there is for us to still learn about using this truck.

Jack

I can't recall who posted, but I can tell you that it will not automatically lock out 9 and 10 in tow/haul mode. We had a 700 mile rt a few weeks back, and the truck stayed primarily in 9th, unless a long(ish) downhill when it would rise to 10th with slight depressing of the accelerator. Mostly interstate driving 65-70 mph. Waiting for a few more snowbirds to leave some Florida campgrounds so that we can get out again.

 

[towingnp]

The engineering and software side of the 'hybrid' design is something I've noticed Ford has stayed away from describing, yet it's one feature of a hybrid design that you'd think we would be highly interested in. Does the drive train software offer a 'mixed use' design where the motor assists the engine under certain conditions? One would assume so but I've yet to read about it.

I’ve not seen that documented anywhere either. I assumed the electric motor assisted the gas engine in tow haul mode just because the PowerBoost delivers a higher towing capacity than the EB version. If PB didn’t kick in while towing, how would it deliver that extra capacity? That was my thinking but the opinions and perceptions posted in forums and YT videos seemed to suggest otherwise, though those are not necessarily more educated guesses than mine.

Given what is reasonable for a half-ton truck to tow, I don't see the PB's payload necessarily being a big compromise. The compromise comes from buyers optioning up their order without using the options & trims weight schedule or buying off the lot a F150 that's been optioned to appeal widely by the dealer. That seems to be when there's disappointment with a 1300# or so payload. If Ford's docs are accurate, I'll end up with a very well optioned Lariat that will have a 1500#+ payload. I would think that's more than enough for most families of 4 while pulling a trailer with a 800# TW...

I’m like you. Placed an order recently for a Lariat PB 502 with stock 18s and no payload eating options other towing mirrors. Before I spray in the bedliner and add a soft tonneau cover, I wouldn’t be surprised to be in the upper 1500s if not 1600s. My current AS only has a 500 TW. No issue there. I expect the new AS to be 1000 TW, fully loaded but before WD. As there is usually only 2 of us and little gear, it should also work based on my calculations. When I mention the payload hit, it’s in reference to the buffer I’d get on the EB version of the truck, along with the added range of the bigger tank.

Honestly, if you're worried about range and towing, maybe look towards an F250 diesel. It may make more sense for your needs.

My order still hasn’t been assigned a VIN so I could change it. Debating keeping PB, going EB or, precisely as you suggest, moving to a diesel HD truck. All this info is helping as I ponder!

 

[dog_tired]

All these options have their fans so, yes, it is a matter of first priorities with the PB).

You've hit the nail on the head. It's all a matter of what matters to the driver. Ford certainly provides us with a ton of optioning. Are you planning on your F150 being primarily a tow vehicle? Then you can option it as such. Doubling up duty as a daily driver? You've got choices.

The key is to take your time and get what you want AFTER you've researched the tow and payload capabilities.

I personally gave up on some cargo weight, but I did want the moonroof, and Fx4 package. I didn't get the MaxTow because at the time I submitted my build order in October, there was talk that MaxTow would delay delivery (I was hoping to take prior to 12/31 so I could write off the truck in 2020). That was a risk at the decision time, but I'm not going to sweat it as it's just two of us and two german shorthaired pointers. And, we learned while towing with a BMW X5 that it's better to load up the Airstream with extras, than to pile it in the back of the tow vehicle.

Can't wait to get out again. Would love to trade locations with you in Arizona, Jack, so I could be back camping on BLM lands in the Grand Staircase National Monument.

 

[Jack in Prescott]

You're right, Karl. There's certainly a lot of spectacular 'there' to explore out here in the Western States. We moved here (Prescott AZ) last year from Montana, another vast collection of neat destinations tho' more limited in time due to weather. We are fortunate.

Nic, as you're planning to trade up to a heavier trailer and expecting a doubling of tongue weight, I'm reminded of a chat I had at the RV storage yard recently. The fellow had purchased a Lance 2375 which, by Lance standards, are known to have notoriously heavy TW's. Something like the 1000# you mentioned when (or even before) the WDH is considered, depending on the load out and trailer options. He was towing it with a 2020 F150 (didn't notice the trim level but it was one of the higher ones) with a 3.5L EB. I asked him about his towing experience and his comments boiled down to one big shrug: Just the two of them, didn't know the trailer was there, WDH adequately solved any rear end sag, gobs of power when traveling (we're in N Arizona so lots of mountain passes hereabouts in the SW U.S. and elevations that rob engine power) and mileage was acceptable in the 10-12 range. I don't mean to be overly optimistic but...to my mind, that suggested both a PB and EB F150, if optioned to account for towing duties, will do just fine. Based on our travel hopes, the only downside I think we're accepting with the PB is the reduced range. And there are ways to manage thru that limitation. But of course what we're getting is e.g. boondocking while cooking dinner in the microwave while running the A/C (a tongue in cheek kinda worst case scenario) and having zero energy management issues for the trailer no matter how long we're out. So for us and our 5800# Lance, it was perhaps an easier choice.

Jack

 

[MnTom]

Totally. There are those used cases of driving to remote destinations. But there’s also times where the extra range would just get you to your destination without a fuel stop.

My heart says yes but my mind is saying no... Cons to PowerBoost are reduced range and payload, pros are the built in generator and extra torque.

But on that last point of the extra boost, I’m hearing confusing reports on the electric motor in tow haul. I get it won’t run on its own but will it run alongside the gas engine when needed, like going uphill?

Yes, the electric motor still runs in tow haul, can boost acceleration or short hills...

 

[towingnp]

Nic, as you're planning to trade up to a heavier trailer and expecting a doubling of tongue weight, I'm reminded of a chat I had at the RV storage yard recently. The fellow had purchased a Lance 2375 which, by Lance standards, are known to have notoriously heavy TW's. Something like the 1000# you mentioned when (or even before) the WDH is considered, depending on the load out and trailer options. He was towing it with a 2020 F150 (didn't notice the trim level but it was one of the higher ones) with a 3.5L EB. I asked him about his towing experience and his comments boiled down to one big shrug: Just the two of them, didn't know the trailer was there, WDH adequately solved any rear end sag, gobs of power when traveling (we're in N Arizona so lots of mountain passes hereabouts in the SW U.S. and elevations that rob engine power) and mileage was acceptable in the 10-12 range. I don't mean to be overly optimistic but...to my mind, that suggested both a PB and EB F150, if optioned to account for towing duties, will do just fine. Based on our travel hopes, the only downside I think we're accepting with the PB is the reduced range. And there are ways to manage thru that limitation. But of course what we're getting is e.g. boondocking while cooking dinner in the microwave while running the A/C (a tongue in cheek kinda worst case scenario) and having zero energy management issues for the trailer no matter how long we're out. So for us and our 5800# Lance, it was perhaps an easier choice.

Jack

Thanks Jack. Good to hear about that experience. I’ve researched the topic quite a bit ahead of placing my order and despite the many, many voices suggesting a 3/4 ton truck was the only way to go, I’m pretty convinced the 1/2 ton F150 will do just fine from a power and handling standpoint with my 25’ AS.

What really threw me for a loop is the range folks are reporting. I actually expected the PB to do equally well or slightly better while towing, not worse. That’s what I have to come to peace with. It’s manageable. Just had in my head long stretches of driving without stops.

 

[towingnp]

Yes, the electric motor still runs in tow haul, can boost acceleration or short hills...

Good to hear.

 

[biorchang]

So I ordered a PB XLT 4x4. After 2-3 weeks dealer told me yesterday it goes into production May 24th. Will post payload sticker when it arrives.

 

[UGADawg96]

I'm looking at my decision based on if we ever plan to use a generator for boondocking or home power outages. Since we do, then the hybrid PB is the way to go as we'll get half the payload back from not having to load up a 100lb genny, nor service it, nor deal with having to keep filling it up, etc. We do lose power quite a bit here in N. Florida. When looking at comparable builds, I'm seeing between 1500-1700lb payload based on PB vs EB in an XLT 302a. And we are staying away from max tow. It doesn't provide any value for towing a travel trailer, in fact, it takes away payload. ymmv. good luck!

To add to this, I can rarely go more than 3-4 hours without needed a break anyway, stretch, restroom, etc. Being on the East Coast, don't think I'm that worried about needing those extra 6 gallons of gas with the EB. I could always just toss in a 5 gal gas can if I was that worried.

 

[Fred&Wilma]

Hello all. I am new to this forum and to this thread but it sounds like I’m in good company.

I have a PB on order with delivery expected before month end. I believe my payload will be about 1300 lbs. I calculated this froma Ford dealer publication of vehicle weight and the weight of options.

the tongue weight of my loaded trailer (Airstream Caravel 23FB) weighed with a tongue scale from Amazon is 580lbs. With a full tank (28 gals) of water it is 660lbs.

I am using an equalizer WD hitch, and based on my previous vehicle I can transfer about 150lbs of that “dead” tongue weight back to the trailer axle, leaving a balance of 580-150=430 being transferred to the Tow Vehicle. This can be split pretty evenly betweenfront and rear axles. All of these are from measurements from CAT scales - which I highly recommend (use the 3 pass weighing method).

in summary then, after effective tongue weight I have 1300-430 =870 remaining. Driver and shotgun is around 350lbs. So I have about 520 remaining for all the rest of the gear (fire pit, water softener, 3 stage water filter, toolbox, bikes etc). Which I think is manageable.

I am somewhat comforted by the fact that the real limit is max vehicle weigh which is about 7300 lbs. so if I am 100lbs over on weight, that sounds a lot compared to the 1300lb payload. But the “real” maximum is 7300 (keen weight plus payload) and 100lb over on that is a much smaller percentage.

installing Lithium batteries and Viking propane bottles could also reduce weight by 100lb if I need to.

I hope this helps with the payload discussion.

on another subject I was hoping to use the WiFi hotspot in the truck for a data streaming connection for Netflix in the trailer. I was hoping that by leaving the truck in generator mode would leave the modem on even with the truck not running and locked. Does anyone know if this is the case ?

thanks for the great thread everyone.

 

[Jack in Prescott]

Ken, a WD hitch is all about shifting weight to the front of the tow vehicle from the back. It doesn't reduce or 'eliminate' some of that hitch weight from the tow vehicle when doing payload computations. You may want to watch this excellent discussion that explains why that's the case. Also, I don't see how you have accounted for the weight of your WD hitch in your description. It sounds like your Caravel's tongue weight, when weighed by your own scale, didn't include the weight of your WD hitch.

The conventional way to mathematically determine the amount of a truck's payload used by a trailer would be to add together a trailer's full tongue weight with its WD hitch weight. The better way, as you mention, is to use a 3-pad conventional scale. So hey, if the scales end up giving you the right numbers, that's what counts. Hope the F150 is everything you're expecting.

Jack

 

[ricko24]

Hello all. I am new to this forum and to this thread but it sounds like I’m in good company.

I have a PB on order with delivery expected before month end. I believe my payload will be about 1300 lbs. I calculated this froma Ford dealer publication of vehicle weight and the weight of options.

the tongue weight of my loaded trailer (Airstream Caravel 23FB) weighed with a tongue scale from Amazon is 580lbs. With a full tank (28 gals) of water it is 660lbs.

I am using an equalizer WD hitch, and based on my previous vehicle I can transfer about 150lbs of that “dead” tongue weight back to the trailer axle, leaving a balance of 580-150=430 being transferred to the Tow Vehicle. This can be split pretty evenly betweenfront and rear axles. All of these are from measurements from CAT scales - which I highly recommend (use the 3 pass weighing method).

in summary then, after effective tongue weight I have 1300-430 =870 remaining. Driver and shotgun is around 350lbs. So I have about 520 remaining for all the rest of the gear (fire pit, water softener, 3 stage water filter, toolbox, bikes etc). Which I think is manageable.

I am somewhat comforted by the fact that the real limit is max vehicle weigh which is about 7300 lbs. so if I am 100lbs over on weight, that sounds a lot compared to the 1300lb payload. But the “real” maximum is 7300 (keen weight plus payload) and 100lb over on that is a much smaller percentage.

installing Lithium batteries and Viking propane bottles could also reduce weight by 100lb if I need to.

I hope this helps with the payload discussion.

on another subject I was hoping to use the WiFi hotspot in the truck for a data streaming connection for Netflix in the trailer. I was hoping that by leaving the truck in generator mode would leave the modem on even with the truck not running and locked. Does anyone know if this is the case ?

thanks for the great thread everyone.

the truck is basically on when in generator mode ...so keep your radio, ac, etc... off. And yes your wifi will be available.

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