100 year 4 million mile battery

[Kev12345]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesm...-year-4-million-mile-battery/?sh=1334ce6e72f4

"The NMC 532 chemistry Dahn has been testing promises another leap forward in battery technology. However, cars don’t need to last 100 years, and they don’t need to go 4 million miles either. Considering that the average vehicle age in the USA is 12 years doing 14,000 miles per year, the mean lifetime distance driven by an American car is 168,000 miles, and in Europe it’s a lot less. So, in reality, batteries with 4-million-mile durability will enable applications such as vehicle-to-grid, which will increase the rate of charge-discharge cycling. But they are more likely to be most useful for static energy storage in houses and for grid buffering capacity from an intermittent renewable supply."

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[MickeyAO]

Two things about this article. First, Jeffery Dahm is a legendary researcher on the same level as Dr Goodenough and Judy Jeevarjan.

Second, they really buried the breakthrough...it's not so much the NMC 532, but it's the cathode.

 

[Whammy Bar]

Two things about this article. First, Jeffery Dahm is a legendary researcher on the same level as Dr Goodenough and Judy Jeevarjan.

Second, they really buried the breakthrough...it's not so much the NMC 532, but it's the cathode.

I'm still not sure if this is a troll post or Dr Goodenough is legit. I know you know your about batteries... So I'm inclined to think it's a funny coincidence.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I'm still not sure if this is a troll post or Dr Goodenough is legit. I know you know your about batteries... So I'm inclined to think it's a funny coincidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Goodenough

https://mrs.digitellinc.com/mrs/speakers/view/34081

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

I'm still not sure if this is a troll post or Dr Goodenough is legit. I know you know your about batteries... So I'm inclined to think it's a funny coincidence.

I looked them up before scrolling further because I had the same thought. And if I had scrolled I would've seen @TaxmanHog had already linked their bios

 

[Kev12345]

Abstract
Single crystal Li[Ni0.5Mn0.3Co0.2]O2//graphite (NMC532) pouch cells with only sufficient graphite for operation to 3.80 V (rather than ≥4.2 V) were cycled with charging to either 3.65 V or 3.80 V to facilitate comparison with LiFePO4//graphite (LFP) pouch cells on the grounds of similar maximum charging potential and similar negative electrode utilization. The NMC532 cells, when constructed with only sufficient graphite to be charged to 3.80 V, have an energy density that exceeds that of the LFP cells and a cycle-life that greatly exceeds that of the LFP cells at 40 °C, 55 °C and 70 °C. Excellent lifetime at high temperature is demonstrated with electrolytes that contain lithium bis(fluorosulfonyl)imide (LiFSI) salt, well beyond those provided by conventional LiPF6 electrolytes. Ultra-high precision coulometry and electrochemical impedance spectroscopy are used to complement cycling results and investigate the reasons for the improved performance of the NMC cells. NMC cells, particularly those balanced and charged to 3.8 V, show better coulombic efficiency, less capacity fade and higher energy density compared to LFP cells and are projected to yield lifetimes approaching a century at 25 °C.

here's the link to the actual paper
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/1945-7111/ac67b5

 

[MickeyAO]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Goodenough

https://mrs.digitellinc.com/mrs/speakers/view/34081

While Sony is credited with producing the 1st Li-ion battery, it was based on the work of Dr. Goodenough (who I believe just celebrated his 100th birthday recently).

Dr. Judy is the only one whom I have run (and running) projects for. I have run tests to confirm several of Dahm's papers, and Goodenough is just up the road at UT. As noted in the bio @TaxmanHog posted, Dr. Judy was the head of battery research at NASA before UL managed to steal her away.

I actually am friends with someone who has assisted all three of these legends (currently working for Dahm).

Deep diving into the paper and the one thing that really stands out to me is the voltage...how many times have I said not to go to Vmax? It is funny that the breakthrough comes because they wanted to limit Vmax so they could directly compare it to an LFP

I'm sure you are going to hear about the 'next big thing' with solid-state, sodium, and sulfur batteries, but this paper has me the most excited about the future of batteries.

 

[Kev12345]

Hey Mickey,

Does this battery contain nickel or cobalt?

 

[MickeyAO]

Hey Mickey,

Does this battery contain nickel or cobalt?

NMC 532. 50% Nickle, 30% Maganese, and 20% Cobalt.

 

[Maxx]

Anyone knows when something like this goes to mass production, if the existing pack in lightning need to be replaced, it could be easily replaced with this? Or BMS and cooling are chemistry specific and the job would be too complex to be practical. What do you think?

 

[Regular150]

Their is literally tens of propulsion options for the otherwise common One in a few million F150s out their. It's going to be limited by the Modders imagination!
For the record, I'm thrilled with the current setup in my Lightning.

 

[MickeyAO]

Anyone knows when something like this goes to mass production, if the existing pack in lightning need to be replaced, it could be easily replaced with this? Or BMS and cooling are chemistry specific and the job would be too complex to be practical. What do you think?

This is still early in the basic research phase. I would not expect this to emerge to the applied research phase (what Southwest Research Institute does) for at least another year or two. Once there, you are looking at two to three years before it enters the valley of death (a phase where the technology is proven but unfunded) and finally makes it into high-end products in about four to five years.

 

[Maxx]

This is still early in the basic research phase. I would not expect this to emerge to the applied research phase (what Southwest Research Institute does) for at least another year or two. Once there, you are looking at two to three years before it enters the valley of death (a phase where the technology is proven but unfunded) and finally makes it into high-end products in about four to five years.

This works out perfectly. It could be in production right after my battery runs out of warranty. Battery density improvements probably will give me more of an instant gratification than longevity. It could improve, my payload, range and acceleration.

 

[Kev12345]

This works out perfectly. It could be in production right after my battery runs out of warranty. Battery density improvements probably will give me more of an instant gratification than longevity. It could improve, my payload, range and acceleration.

You’re not going to buy a $30,000 battery for your 8 year old truck. You’re just going to buy a new truck. Ford will make sure of that.

 

[Maxx]

You’re not going to buy a $30,000 battery for your 8 year old truck. You’re just going to buy a new truck. Ford will make sure of that.

Pro went from $40K to $56K in one year. With that rate, in 8 years, a new pro will cost $168K. I will take that $30K battery in a heartbeat.

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