Battery pack longevity

[Fastnf]

I have 20 40 Ah 12v lithium batteries from used hospital equipment. They were charged and discharged nearly everyday. Manufactured in 2014 and used until early this year. 7 years of 24x7 use. They still have between 30 and 32 Ah capacity. That’s 90%+ after 7 years of use. My 4 year old eGolf with 70k miles still has 95% the capacity of when I got it. I’m not at all worried about the Lightning.

I not sure where you get 90%? 30Ah/40Ah =0.75 That's 75% of original capacity and that at 7 years. If degradation was linear, which it is not, it would be 50% at 14 years. I would not find that acceptable and would think the battery would need replacing. Yes the battery could be repurposed but that does not help the range of the tuck.

Your point that your 4 year old eGolf has 95% capacity just proves the point that battery degradation is nonlinear. My Kona Electric shows no degradation and it 2.5 years old. Should I expect a 5% degradation in the next year and a half. Maybe, Maybe not.

Your data while helpful really does not show what to expect in 15 years. Right now we have no 15 year old mass produced electric trucks. So we really have no data which is my concern.

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[MickeyAO]

Your point that your 4 year old eGolf has 95% capacity just proves the point that battery degradation is nonlinear. My Kona Electric shows no degration and it 2.5 years old. Should I expect a 5% degradation in the next year and a half. Maybe, Maybe not.

Your data while helpful really does not show what to expect in 15 years. Right now we have no 15 year old mass produced electic trucks. So we really have no data which is my concern.

I guess Ford should hold off making the Lighting for 15 years so we can get some data...oh, wait!
I guess YOU need to wait for 15 years so we can produce the data for you!
And testing EVs, battery packs, and cells for the last 11 years, I'm not worried about aging, especially calendar aging.

 

[greenne]

I guess Ford should hold off making the Lighting for 15 years so we can get some data...oh, wait!
I guess YOU need to wait for 15 years so we can produce the data for you!
And testing EVs, battery packs, and cells for the last 11 years, I'm not worried about aging, especially calendar aging.

To be honest, I think the accessories, seats, electrical switches and the like will wear out long before the battery becomes an issue.

 

[Pedaldude]

Unless there's some crazy development in technology, gasoline internal combustion engines are likely as good as they're going to get.

Battery technology still hasn't gone through all the possible permutations yet, so there's still a lot to learn and already it's catching up with the performance of ICE technology in some aspects.

They're building battery electric airplanes, which should be saying something.

I think that the biggest problem with any battery technology is not the technology itself but the implementation by the manufacturers. The individual cells need to become more of a commodity and not proprietary to each manufacturer like they have been very recently. Designs focused on serviceability and a larger market share should drive prices down and while complicated, it's possible that battery rebuilders could be as common as transmission shops were 20-30 years ago. Then there's the issue of recycling that needs to be solved every time a new chemistry is developed.

I do think shelf life is enough of a concern, that if you hardly put any miles on your vehicle every year, or if you park at the airport away on business for a month; you should probably stick with gasoline or diesel for the near future.

BEV seems to be becoming an easy decision for those in the city, especially if you can rack up lots of miles under warranty. While people are demanding the biggest battery possible, capable of being used without too much inconvenience on their annual 5,000 mile road trip, it almost seems like the best choice is the minimum amount of kWh for just enough range that you can get your daily driving done with enough left over for anticipated battery degradation and the occasional detour caused by a road closure.

Trucks are super popular in North America and they tend to be kept on the road much longer than sedans, SUVs and compact cars because of their utility. So the Lightning will be a very interesting study in the practicality of modern BEVs, since the example of a 15 year old Tesla sedan worth as much as its battery replacement cost may be a dilemma, it's not uncommon to see old trucks restored, repaired or modified at costs that exceed their value.

 

[metroshot]

I not sure where you get 90%? 30Ah/40Ah =0.78 That's 78% of original capacity and that at 7 years. If degradation was linear, which it is not, it would be 56% at 14 years. I would not find that acceptable and would think the battery would need replacing. Yes the battery could be repurposed but that does not help the range of the tuck.

Your point that your 4 year old eGolf has 95% capacity just proves the point that battery degradation is nonlinear. My Kona Electric shows no degration and it 2.5 years old. Should I expect a 5% degradation in the next year and a half. Maybe, Maybe not.

Your data while helpful really does not show what to expect in 15 years. Right now we have no 15 year old mass produced electic trucks. So we really have no data which is my concern.

Coming from a 3 year old PHEV, the 17kWh battery still holds a full charge and I get 50-60 miles of pure EV range which is amazing.

The batteries are warranted for 10 years so I won't have to worry about the most expensive parts for another 7 years.

As for Ford, I think 8 years warranty is just as amazing and would be comfortable keeping her for at least that long, assuming the other parts (non EV) keep working.

 

[GarageMahal]

What I would really like to see is a modular battery system so that I can run around town on a small, low weight battery but add in another big battery for road trips... or better yet two more of the smaller ones so I keep 3 of the same batteries in rotation in town. Note however that performance needs to be same for any combination of batteries for this work or I would always have all of them in anyway; I like acceleration.

 

[biers]

Coming from a 3 year old PHEV, the 17kWh battery still holds a full charge and I get 50-60 miles of pure EV range which is amazing.

The batteries are warranted for 10 years so I won't have to worry about the most expensive parts for another 7 years.

As for Ford, I think 8 years warranty is just as amazing and would be comfortable keeping her for at least that long, assuming the other parts (non EV) keep working.

You’re right. Guess I shouldn’t try to do math after a few IPAs. Meant to say 36-38 Ah.

 

[jefro]

My BMW i3 was close to it's warranty at 100K miles. It however had to be charged to 100% every day and run down to 5% to make it to work and back. Top of that it had a lot of DC charging.
I'd think that a typical user could use settings to reduce degradation.

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