Bigger or smaller dealer to get Lightning earlier?

[astricklin]

Is this fully refundable if you cancel later? My dealer told me (and I asked twice), only the initial $100 and it's fully refundable.

Each individual dealer sets the order deposit amount. As far as being refundable, that also depends on the dealer and some state laws require redunds.

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[Fordskeptic]

What Astricklin wrote. Refundable up to the point that the VIN is issued generally. After that, the deposit is non-refundable except where state law says different.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

What is this standard $500 down? My dealer told me that there's no deposit beyond the initial $100 when you placed your reservation?

Ford had default deposit amount set for online ordering. If the dealership didn't adjust it, the default order deposit was $500. If you went to the more expensive trims, it was $1,000. Both on top of your initial $100. But some dealerships were requiring higher deposit amounts, so they adjusted it online to whatever they wanted prior to orders starting. Same for ADM. it defaulted online as $0. But many on the forum posted that their dealerships added ADM. So if you ordered online, you got to see all of this information prior to submitting. Thankfully, many noticed markups added on before they submitted, and switched dealerships.

 

[RavenYZF-R6]

Ford had default deposit amount set for online ordering. If the dealership didn't adjust it, the default order deposit was $500. If you went to the more expensive trims, it was $1,000. Both on top of your initial $100. But some dealerships were requiring higher deposit amounts, so they adjusted it online to whatever they wanted prior to orders starting. Same for ADM. it defaulted online as $0. But many on the forum posted that their dealerships added ADM. So if you ordered online, you got to see all of this information prior to submitting. Thankfully, many noticed markups added on before they submitted, and switched dealerships.

Unfortunately dealers not adding the ADM when you submit the order online doesn’t stop them from tacking it on come delivery.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

Unfortunately dealers not adding the ADM when you submit the order online doesn’t stop them from tacking it on come delivery.

True. But if you have a signed Purchase Agreement with them now, they can't pull any b.s. come delivery time. It's a legal contract that will hold up in court. Some dealers tried to screw MME reservation customers at delivery, but their purchase agreement was gold. In some cases, Mike Levine from Ford got involved, and dealership had to honor purchase agreement price. (only time price can change from purchase agreement price is if the manufacturer invoice price changes when vehicle delivered). -watch the Long McArthur ford video on youtube on "how to combat unexpected dealer fees."

If you have the courage to and ready to break your dealer psychologically, you can do the following once you get your invite to order. Try to get email from your dealer stating no ADM. If you don't have one, call them and ask for sales manager.. put them on speaker phone. Have another device recording the conversation (legal loophole for some wiretapping law in some states from what i understand-someone just happened to be recording at home and "caught" the conversation on tape.. i would record video on my phone)..Say you are calling to confirm that "you were told no ADM" by someone at the dealership on your order. When they verbally confirm, hang up. If they don't give you the answer you want, try another dealership. But once they say no ADM, go online and place your order. Make sure there is $0 ADM showing on order summary page (take screenshot and print it!). Once you place your order, immediately call dealer and ask them to accept the order in their system a.s.a.p. because you don't want to miss out on your model and build if they run out. Sound excited and eager and they will take a moment to accept it in their system right away. If they ask you to come in first, tell them to just accept it now to guarantee your spot and you're on your way. You have to go in regardless to sign a purchase agreement (ford requires it to verify you are human.) If they don't ask you to come in - some dealers want to stall to do shady things - tell them you want to come in and review the order with them in person (AFTER they accepted your order in the system. you will know because it will show on your ford.com order page). Go in a.s.a.p. and ask to fill out purchase agreement. Don't even bring up or ask about ADM here...if they write down m.s.r.p. price, then sign right away and you are locked in. Before you sign, you can always ask them to make note on the agreement that you don't want dealer add-ons, and if you are really feeling good about the situation, have them write down no ADM. This is nice to have. IF they do bring up ADM, tell them what the sales manager told you on the phone. If they suddenly try to pull some b.s. excuse, you tell them that you know how the entire order process works, and if they were going to add ADM, they were supposed to add it in their system prior to you placing your order and them accepting...tell them since they already accepted the order, its too late... this will throw them off guard and make them start questioning if they messed up.. ::make sure you sound confident:: you want to be in control and them to feel vulnerable... show them your printed out screenshot and explain where the ADM should have been if they wanted to add it. There is a thread on here that someone posted showing ADM added on in order summary. Print it out and show them as an example how they should have done it if they wanted to add ADM. At this point they will really start questioning themselves more. If they are still fighting you, you can also play/show them your recording and ask them how it went from no ADM to ADM in the hour or two since you spoke with them on the phone...(but i don't think it will go that far). You can also print out the ford memo (its online) as well about price gouging and unfair business practices, and tell them that you contact ford right now (grab your phone and make a real call 1-800-392-3673) to let them know about what their dealership is trying to pull. Make a scene if you need to. By this point, they should be so thrown off and on the defensive that they will most likely give you what you want. If they still don't, you messed up on one of the steps, or should fight like hell with the evidence you have until you get your way (just don't do anything illegal and don't waste your time if you already knew in advance the dealer charges ADM). You have enough evidence to challenge them at this point to where you should win one way or another. You just can't back off.

Remember, dealers love to use psychological warfare and manipulation on their customers. Its part of their craft. So you have to be prepared and play their game right back at them. If you're like any typical customer, they will eat you alive. But if you have a plan to combat their plan, you will win. Me, I love this shit! I wish i could get paid to go buy cars for people for a small fee. When i buy a car, I plan to get the deal i want weeks or months ahead sometimes. For example, I just bought a Lincoln this past October. Walked into the only dealership that had the color i wanted, asked the salesperson if they accepted A-plan, he said no.. owner wont allow it.. low inventory, tough times b.s... I called another dealer on speaker right in front of him.. asked if they will accept A-plan (already knowing they will) they of course said yes, so i told them i'm on my way.. my sales person's face turned red and he said wait! Let me talk to my manager. Three hours later, I drove off the lot with the Iincoln i wanted for A-plan price, and even got them to throw in free weathertech floor mat's because i told them "i don't really like the color..i still think i'm gonna go check out the other dealer..but if you're willing to throw in free floor mats, i'll just buy it and save gas money" ..all during a time when the dealer across the street had $5k ADM on all their Cadillac's. Its all a mental game.. you just have to be prepared to break them. The deal i got on my Lightning was just as good (no free floor mats though)..

I know i wrote a novel here, but i hope i helped inspire and empower some of you during a time where dealers are walking all over people. Anything is possible if you are prepared and willing to take the time to get what you want.

 

[aaronbooker]

Thank you for the novel! Absolutely awesome. Saved this as my favorite post on the forum so far.

 

[ExCivilian]

Absolutely awesome.

It's not awesome. It sounds interesting but encourages several illegal tactics.

There is no "loophole" to recording someone in a two-party consent state. Even if there was an "ooopsie" defense it's ridiculously trivial to demonstrate why/how this wasn't accidental at all. Now you've got two(+) felonies: the recording and the lying about it.

Then it verges into extortion once the threat of legal action "if not for" the act of securing a pecuniary benefit (lower price). Minimum 3rd felony.

All for the purpose of securing an unnecessary verbal commitment: verbal agreements are just as valid/binding as written ones; the issue isn't that verbal agreements are less binding, they're just harder to prove. An email, however, suffices and moots the entire discussion.

That all begs the question of what you're going to do with all of this "evidence" once push comes to shove: take them to court? That's your right but it'll resolve sometime around 2024+ so wouldn't have a whole lot of practical value for obtaining the vehicle in a timely manner for the agreed upon price.

Lastly, the whole thing sounds fanciful anyway. Maybe he's scaring dealerships but I doubt it. If they are scared, they're almost certainly feigning it. Of course, they're "scared" just like they won't be eating for that month since he "stole" the car from them. All of those claims are nonsensical or they wouldn't be in the car selling business to begin with...

...and if anyone's wondering that "professor" in my sig is ...of law.

 

[rdr854]

It's not awesome. It sounds interesting but encourages several illegal tactics.

There is no "loophole" to recording someone in a two-party consent state. Even if there was an "ooopsie" defense it's ridiculously trivial to demonstrate why/how this wasn't accidental at all. Now you've got two(+) felonies: the recording and the lying about it.

Then it verges into extortion once the threat of legal action "if not for" the act of securing a pecuniary benefit (lower price). Minimum 3rd felony.

All for the purpose of securing an unnecessary verbal commitment: verbal agreements are just as valid/binding as written ones; the issue isn't that verbal agreements are less binding, they're just harder to prove. An email, however, suffices and moots the entire discussion.

That all begs the question of what you're going to do with all of this "evidence" once push comes to shove: take them to court? That's your right but it'll resolve sometime around 2024+ so wouldn't have a whole lot of practical value for obtaining the vehicle in a timely manner for the agreed upon price.

Lastly, the whole thing sounds fanciful anyway. Maybe he's scaring dealerships but I doubt it. If they are scared, they're almost certainly feigning it. Of course, they're "scared" just like they won't be eating for that month since he "stole" the car from them. All of those claims are nonsensical or they wouldn't be in the car selling business to begin with...

...and if anyone's wondering that "professor" in my sig is ...of law.

Yes, just ask Linda Tripp how allegedly recording a conversation worked for her in Maryland. While she never went to trial, she was indicted.

 

[aaronbooker]

I didn’t really care about the recording part. But for those who are considering recording you can do that without issue in the vast majority of states. I switched dealers for my reservation because my closest dealer wouldn’t confirm or deny when I emailed about ADM. The dealer I switched to responded in 30 minutes.

The law:

https://www.rev.com/blog/phone-call-recording-laws-state

 

[ExCivilian]

But for those who are considering recording you can do that without issue in the vast majority of states.

That's a vastly oversimplified generalization of the law. It's even more strange given the link you provided states this:

"Given the inconsistencies among state and federal laws, Justia.com recommends following the strictest law that applies to recording a conversation or getting permission from each party to record a conversation."

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