Do EVs really save $$ - Our results with a Mach-E

[VTbuckeye]

Buying a new EV, particularly a luxury EV, to save money is an exercise in self delusion. I prefer to drive EV for the other reasons. It is simply a better experience (quieter, more convenient for me, more power when desired...). I found this out when driving a phev. One other place where EV is particularly adept is frequent short drives. Work is 6.5 miles away, grocery store 2 miles, kids' school 0.5 and 1 mile, in laws 6 miles...I don't want to know how much excessive wear is on (would be if we didn't drive EV when possible) our low mileage ice/phev cars from short drives with inadequate warm up. This is probably worse with the phev that runs for not even a minute when cold (not even that cold) with adequate charge to complete the drive, to never warming up, just diluting the oil with condensation and unburned fuel. I am awaiting the departure of our only pure ice vehicle remaining once the lightning arrives and will use the phev for longer trips (long enough to actually warm up the engine). None of these reasons are for saving money.
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[sotek2345]

Buying a new EV, particularly a luxury EV, to save money is an exercise in self delusion. I prefer to drive EV for the other reasons. It is simply a better experience (quieter, more convenient for me, more power when desired...). I found this out when driving a phev. One other place where EV is particularly adept is frequent short drives. Work is 6.5 miles away, grocery store 2 miles, kids' school 0.5 and 1 mile, in laws 6 miles...I don't want to know how much excessive wear is on (would be if we didn't drive EV when possible) our low mileage ice/phev cars from short drives with inadequate warm up. This is probably worse with the phev that runs for not even a minute when cold (not even that cold) with adequate charge to complete the drive, to never warming up, just diluting the oil with condensation and unburned fuel. I am awaiting the departure of our only pure ice vehicle remaining once the lightning arrives and will use the phev for longer trips (long enough to actually warm up the engine). None of these reasons are for saving money.
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Fair enough, we used the savings to move to a more expensive vehicle vs. trying to save money anyways. I just thought the math was interesting and other might learn from it

 

[Tenetke]

Buying a new EV, particularly a luxury EV, to save money is an exercise in self delusion. I prefer to drive EV for the other reasons. It is simply a better experience (quieter, more convenient for me, more power when desired...). I found this out when driving a phev. One other place where EV is particularly adept is frequent short drives. Work is 6.5 miles away, grocery store 2 miles, kids' school 0.5 and 1 mile, in laws 6 miles...I don't want to know how much excessive wear is on (would be if we didn't drive EV when possible) our low mileage ice/phev cars from short drives with inadequate warm up. This is probably worse with the phev that runs for not even a minute when cold (not even that cold) with adequate charge to complete the drive, to never warming up, just diluting the oil with condensation and unburned fuel. I am awaiting the departure of our only pure ice vehicle remaining once the lightning arrives and will use the phev for longer trips (long enough to actually warm up the engine). None of these reasons are for saving money.
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I think my Expedition Platinum is comparably priced after taking into account the federal tax credit for the Lightning. For me having no increase in electricity because produce enough electricity with my solar panels, I’d consider purchasing the Lightning as a way to save money if I were using it to replace my Expedition. Tires and premium gas with modifications I’ve done to my Expedition certainly increase to cost of maintaining and enjoying it as well. The irs and active noise cancellation in it might be comparable to the quiet cabin and ride if the Lightning as well. So purchasing the Lightning is not going to save me money but if I were using it replace my Expedition, I don’t think I’d be delusional to think I could in fact save money from the amount of gas I’d stop buying.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Having had an EV for a few years, yes, it saves money. But for 99% of our driving, it saves TIME.

Which, to be honest, I consider more valuable.

Every morning I can go to the garage and get into my "full" car. I literally stopped looking at gas prices, and remain entirely ignorant of what they are unless they pop up in news stories.

Not needing to take detours or special trips to add fuel to the car is worth a lot in time savings.

Yes, it is a lot more work on long trips - but that's why we use the Jeep Diesel for long trips.

 

[vbaker4444]

Though the savings in fuel are notable, it's important to consider the total cost of ownership: depreciation, maintenance, repairs, and insurance. I think the Lightning will be better than most in that regard, but I have to laugh when I see people rave about how much money they saved on their Tesla compared to their Accord which holds its value very well, rarely needs repair, and is still not all that expensive to maintain and insure. Insurance and depreciation can be absolutely brutal on a luxury vehicle, and insurance is also disproportionately higher. My P85D was originally a $130k car and I picked it up 4 1/2 years later (from Tesla) with 47k on it for $50k. Wow! Repairs and tires are also very expensive.

Regarding the Mini vs. MachE comparison, even buying the JCW Mini @ $45k, you're still paying $15k more for the MachE GT. After 4 years if they each retain 40% of their MSRP, you're looking at a $9k difference in depreciation cost with the Ford.

My Model S has cost me $1628.13 to charge it (home @ $0.12/kwh and supercharging) over 31 months and 29,640 miles, so about $0.055/mile. This factors in charging for free at some public stations and at family members' homes where I also fill up for "free" (as long as you can take some friendly ribbing for "stealing" electricity). Here is the mpg you'd need to have for equivalent per mile cost based on gas prices alone:

$3/gal = 54.6 mpg
$4/gal = 72.7 mpg
$5/gal = 90.9 mpg

All that said, the benefits to switching to EV are not always calculated with an equation, especially if you've ever driven one. Convenience, power, silence, handling, safety, environment, etc. all have a value that varies based on the owner's perception.

This is exactly it. So many factors on cost savings. Owned a super depreciated 2013 Model S 85 (29k total) back in 2019 and with the insurance and car payment, it was cheaper than my WRX. Where it got crazy we that it was $20-30 more on my electric bill, but I was spending $200-300 a month on premium gas. The savings were just insane. If I were to buy a new Tesla, no savings at all. Again, so many factors.

 

[davidf01]

You cant compare an old depreciated car to a new car. You have to compare apples to apples for savings.

 

[Tony Burgh]

One savings that I will lose going from a 34 gallon gas tank in my F150 to the Lightning is Fuel Perks. I usually accumulate $1 per gallon discount for my monthly fill up. I’ll lose that $30 (max allowed).
I can deal with that.

 

[PiMatrix]

So we just hit 6,000 miles in our Mach-e GT, so I thought I would do a little math (Note: we picked our Mach-e up on 12/31/21 - we have been driving it a lot.

Basic Facts (all numbers rounded to make the math easier - does not skew the results in any meaningful way)
- 6,000 miles driven over the last ~4 months (and a week)
- ~75% of charging done at home via an L2 EVSE (4,500 miles), ~25% (1,500 miles) done via fast charging on road trips
- No garage - car kept outside in an upstate NY winter (pretty much worst case for efficiency)
- Average highway travel speed - 75mph
- Cost of home electricity - between 13 cents and 15 cents per kWhr

Results:
- Home electric bill increased by ~$80/mo. x 4.25 months = $340
- DC fast charging costs = ~$200 (note: this includes costing out the 250 free kWhrs that Ford gave us at $0.40 per kWhr.)
- Total Cost = ~$540 for 6,000 miles

How does this compare to ICE? Our Mach-e replace a Mini Cooper Countryman S that got ~30mpg and took premium fuel. For 6,000 miles it would burn ~200 gallons. Average price for premium in our area is ~$4.80. Total gas cost would have been ~$960

Just in fuel - the Mach-e saved us over $400 during it's least efficient season and against a fairly efficient car.

So - how would this translate to a Lightning

- The Lightning would use about 30% more electricity than the Mach-e for the same miles (~2.3 miles per kWhr vs. 3.0 miles per kWhr to hit the EPA range for each)
- The Lightning would replace a truck that is much less efficient than our car. (I get around 15mpg). However, most trucks can use regular gas which is a bit cheaper (~$4.30 around me)

So - electrical costs go up by 30% - $540 x 1.3 = ~$700

Gas usage doubles to 400 gallons (30 vs 15 mpg) but we are using cheaper gas. 400 gallons x $4.30/gallon = ~$1,720

Over $1,000 saved with the Lightning! In the winter!

Thanks for the cost analysis. Could you check on the "Cost of home electricity - between 13 cents and 15 cents per kWhr". We also live in NY and the cost of electricity is 13 cents for APril but the cost of delivery is 12 cents for total of 25 cents per kWh. In February it was 22 cents for electricity and 15 cents for delivery for total of 32 cents per kWh. Are you including delivery cost of electricity? Of course electricity cost are way way up this spring due to Ukraine situation compared to last year where electricity portion was 5-6.7 cents Feb-April 2020.

 

[sotek2345]

Thanks for the cost analysis. Could you check on the "Cost of home electricity - between 13 cents and 15 cents per kWhr". We also live in NY and the cost of electricity is 13 cents for APril but the cost of delivery is 12 cents for total of 25 cents per kWh. In February it was 22 cents for electricity and 15 cents for delivery for total of 32 cents per kWh. Are you including delivery cost of electricity? Of course electricity cost are way way up this spring due to Ukraine situation compared to last year where electricity portion was 5-6.7 cents Feb-April 2020.

Yes, I was including cost of delivery, I was just excluding the $17 connection fee I pay regardless of use. I suspect that NY has many different regions with different rates. I am up near Albany.

Regardless of what was or wasn't included, our monthly bill went up an average of $80 per month.

 

[greenne]

As somebody with 2 EVs in Upstate NY and soon to be 3 EVs with the Lightning, take advantage of our solar incentives. The state is giving about $10k in incentives on top of the Fed Credit, it’s a no brainer to get solar even if you only have one EV.

Hey another Albany person here!! Yes....NYS Solar incentives are a no brainer if your home can support it.

Can't wait for my Lightning...

 

[greenne]

Yes, I was including cost of delivery, I was just excluding the $17 connection fee I pay regardless of use. I suspect that NY has many different regions with different rates. I am up near Albany.

Regardless of what was or wasn't included, our monthly bill went up an average of $80 per month.

Also Albany (National Grid)..can confirm $0.133c/KwH for the power. $17/month svc charge regardless of usage

 

[monsterlag]

Hey another Albany person here!! Yes....NYS Solar incentives are a no brainer if your home can support it.

Can't wait for my Lightning...

woohoo another Albanian . Who are you picking yours up from? DePaula?

 

[sotek2345]

woohoo another Albanian . Who are you picking yours up from? DePaula?

Metro - they have treated me very well over the years.

 

[greenne]

woohoo another Albanian . Who are you picking yours up from? DePaula?

I originally had my reservation at Morris but switched to Metro in SCH.

I am still waiting for an invitation to order.

 

[PiMatrix]

Yes, I was including cost of delivery, I was just excluding the $17 connection fee I pay regardless of use. I suspect that NY has many different regions with different rates. I am up near Albany.

Regardless of what was or wasn't included, our monthly bill went up an average of $80 per month.

OK, here in Orange County in NY the delivery fee is 0.15/kWh and then add on the electricity cost so quite a bit higher. So mileage varies! In any event being able to subsidize the electricity cost with solar is possible with an electric car but you can't create gasoline

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