Ford EVs no longer eligible for IRS tax credit as of January 1, 2025

[broncoaz]

I'm planning on a 15 kW system to (hopefully) run a net zero home with 2 EV's. Electricity is cheap in Idaho (10 cents per kWh) so RoI is probably significantly longer than most.

With solar, it really is a no brainer, even in Idaho. RoI will be 15 years... then free juice.

I disagree with solar being a no brainer for your situation. At 10 cents per kWh the ROI will be very long, if ever. Using my production for the first year of 16 MWh, at 10 cents per kWh that is about $1,600 per year making a $34,000 net initial investment a 21.25 year ROI at today’s prices. I’d invest that money somewhere and just pay the power bill. $34K at 4% for 21.25 years becomes $80K. Maybe the solar install is cheaper in areas with cheaper power making the ROI shorter, but unless you have other reasons it doesn’t save you money. For me the ROI is 5.2 years, so a no brainer.

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[luebri]

I disagree with solar being a no brainer for your situation. At 10 cents per kWh the ROI will be very long, if ever. Using my production for the first year of 16 MWh, at 10 cents per kWh that is about $1,600 per year making a $34,000 net initial investment a 21.25 year ROI at today’s prices. I’d invest that money somewhere and just pay the power bill. $34K at 4% for 21.25 years becomes $80K. Maybe the solar install is cheaper in areas with cheaper power making the ROI shorter, but unless you have other reasons it doesn’t save you money. For me the ROI is 5.2 years, so a no brainer.

I agree with you for the most part. 10+ year ROI is not Great. That Said, You do need to compute some sort of estimate of electricity rates increase over the time of the ROI. over a four year period from 2023 through 2026. The total electricity rate increase is scheduled to be 27% Here in Wisconsin.

I put my solar in with a conservative estimate of 12 year return but if the electricity rates keep on the pace, they’ve been on recently as I suspected they might that ROI comes in a few years earlier.

Looking back, I wouldn’t have gone with the solar panels At all. Instead, I would have invested in a Tesla powerall Wall or something similar to peak shave. Since my time of use electricity rate at night is so cheap At $0.07. I believe my investment would’ve been less and the ROI would’ve been quicker.

 

[BlueLightning]

Saw this on Facebook just now…

Group inflicted injury…

 

[chl]

And there it is, don't know why i didn't see that exclusion before.

All of the other stipulations were laid out clearly.

Regardless, it is unlikely that it will make a big dent as we start the year, hopefully Ford will get approved for it again before the spring sales start.

Glad I didn't have to worry about tax credits and discounts to make my decision for me. Been here since the reservations, ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

From what I've read, some dealerships were giving a $7500 discount in 2024, even though they had not gotten set up to give the up-front tax credit with the IRS yet, as a market discount.

To encourage people to buy a Ford, and not a brand that DOES qualify for the tax credit in 2025, Ford will have to decide whether they will cut their price by $7500 or give a 'discount' in that amount to compete.

So it is unknown at this point how much it will affect the bottom line purchase price on or after Jan 1, 2025.

All these big and little wrinkles in incentive/disincentive programs, to my mind, only serve to delay the goal of reducing carbon and saving the planet - e.g., tariffs on Chinese made solar panels and EVs. Increasing the price only serves to depress demand (ECON 101).

Such is human endeavor - sometimes we are our own worst enemies.

 

[DaBlue357]

I disagree with solar being a no brainer for your situation. At 10 cents per kWh the ROI will be very long, if ever. Using my production for the first year of 16 MWh, at 10 cents per kWh that is about $1,600 per year making a $34,000 net initial investment a 21.25 year ROI at today’s prices. I’d invest that money somewhere and just pay the power bill. $34K at 4% for 21.25 years becomes $80K. Maybe the solar install is cheaper in areas with cheaper power making the ROI shorter, but unless you have other reasons it doesn’t save you money. For me the ROI is 5.2 years, so a no brainer.

Thanks for the heads up... Maybe people are feeding me exaggerated numbers but if I only generate 16,000 kWh then ROI is nowhere near 15 years. I'm going to revisit this for sure.

As far as investing goes though, I think you might be wrong. I have quite a bit of confidence that electric prices are going to increase more than 4% per year. Also, there is equity involved with the value of a home with solar.

 

[StevenC56]

I envy you guys that have decent electrical rates at your home. In Central California, PG&E rapes us big time.

 

[luebri]

As far as investing goes though, I think you might be wrong. I have quite a bit of confidence that electric prices are going to increase more than 4% per year. Also, there is equity involved with the value of a home with solar.

Comparing to an equivalent investment. You would still have your investment, so can really can’t count equity as a benefit in a ROI comparison AS they both have their value once meeting ROI milestone. Especially if comparing to a liquid investment.

Additionally today Solar value/equity will be less than an investing equivalent into the future as solar tech will likely advance each year bringing replacement costs down and more efficient, thus reducing equity of todays tech as tech advances.

 

[DaBlue357]

Comparing to an equivalent investment. You would still have your investment, so can really can’t count equity as a benefit in a ROI comparison AS they both have their value once meeting ROI milestone. Especially if comparing to a liquid investment.

Additionally today Solar value/equity will be less than an investing equivalent into the future as solar tech will likely advance each year bringing replacement costs down and more efficient, thus reducing equity of todays tech as tech advances.

Legit points although future costs of solar are in doubt IMO. Tariffs will be more in vogue than subsidies starting 2025.

 

[luebri]

Legit points although future costs of solar are in doubt IMO. Tariffs will be more in vogue than subsidies starting 2025.

I fall in the group that believe tariff threats to be just a leverage tactic and not something that will see widespread impact, but I could certainly be wrong and understand you’re vantage point.

 

[chl]

Because if you can afford an $80,001 vehicle you are too rich or make too much money and you don’t need a tax credit! But everybody can afford an $80,000 vehicle-

Yes, well...tax credits are often income limited, but why limit it based on the price of the truck? I guess over a certain price it is considered a luxury vehicle in somebody's mind?

The goal is supposed to be reduce carbon emissions and save the planet from overheating - that seems to get lost in the politics of domestic production, tariffs, taxes, etc., alas.

I lost out on some of the tax credit when I bought my 2012 Nissan Leaf in 2011 because of income that year. Now that I am semi-retired, my lower income means I qualify for the whole enchilada.

Just a truism: No good deed goes unpunished.

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