Ford F-150 Lightning Lariat Range and Fast-Charging Test: Better Than Platinum [Motortrend]

[daveross1212]

based on what, 0° temps and running at 75mph?

Because in LARGE swaths of the country, representing the vast majority of the country’s population, it is untrue that the ER can only guarantee 2-2.5hr of highway range

Fair enough perhaps up north in dead of winter

I am talking about driving between NYC and Boston. Pretty sure that is representative of swaths of US population. Cold matters (below 50 deg, not 0 deg). Wind matters. Rain Matters. Speed matters. Most highway driving in the US is above 70mph. You aren't gonna run the battery from 100% to 0% and magically that's exactly when/where you charge. So yea you really can't guarantee more than 2.5hrs of highway driving under normal circumstances.

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[Yellow Buddy]

I must drive like an asshole because my ER 100% charge estimate is only 250 miles.

What's that make me if mine is 240 miles?

 

[cvalue13]

I am talking about driving between NYC and Boston. Pretty sure that is representative of swaths of US population.

Yeah, about 17% of the US population. Which on an annualized weather basis - even assuming your 50° threshold, equates to about 8% of US drive time effected (and that’s generous), before discounting for the relative lack of vehicles in the NE.

But 50% of all US vehicle owners are concentrated in the South.

So that roughly takes the 8% of drive time to 4% (even ignoring California and the rest of the western state populations)

This could go on and on, but the point remains: are there people effected by cold weather driving with BEVs? Sure! Is it representative of some vast majority of driving in the US? Far from it.

Cold matters (below 50 deg, not 0 deg). Wind matters. Rain Matters. Speed matters. Most highway driving in the US is above 70mph.

Yes, all these things “matter.”

Which is why a person is misunderstanding BEV driving if their approach is to drive a BEV as though it is an ICE vehicle. It’s not.

If in a BEV you choose to do 75mph, then that person is choosing to reduce their range by >35% compared to driving at 60mph. To make it to their destination maybe 5-10 minutes sooner.

You aren't gonna run the battery from 100% to 0% and magically that's exactly when/where you charge.

your point is confusing or internally inconsistent.

Presumably if you’re “driving 2.5hr” from point A to point B, you are driving from one charge point (your home) to another (wherever you’re staying).

here in TX, I can drive from my home 4+ hours away to the beach, where we’re staying for a long weekend as the truck trickle charges on the “emergency” cable

or drive 3.5hr, tons of charge remaining, to a hotel in Houston, where the truck sits on a charger, etc.

only if you’re making a drive beyond your range do you have to worry about intermittent charging during a drive

So yea you really can't guarantee more than 2.5hrs of highway driving under normal circumstances.

Under your “normal” conditions, at your preferred driving habits

 

[daveross1212]

Yeah, about 17% of the US population. Which on an annualized weather basis - even assuming your 50° threshold, equates to about 8% of US drive time effected (and that’s generous), before discounting for the relative lack of vehicles in the NE.

But 50% of all US vehicle owners are concentrated in the South.

So that roughly takes the 8% of drive time to 4% (even ignoring California and the rest of the western state populations)

This could go on and on, but the point remains: are there people effected by cold weather driving with BEVs? Sure! Is it representative of some vast majority of driving in the US? Far from it.




Yes, all these things “matter.”

Which is why a person is misunderstanding BEV driving if their approach is to drive a BEV as though it is an ICE vehicle. It’s not.

If in a BEV you choose to do 75mph, then that person is choosing to reduce their range by >35% compared to driving at 60mph. To make it to their destination maybe 5-10 minutes sooner.



your point is confusing or internally inconsistent.

Presumably if you’re “driving 2.5hr” from point A to point B, you are driving from one charge point (your home) to another (wherever you’re staying).

here in TX, I can drive from my home 4+ hours away to the beach, where we’re staying for a long weekend as the truck trickle charges on the “emergency” cable

or drive 3.5hr, tons of charge remaining, to a hotel in Houston, where the truck sits on a charger, etc.

only if you’re making a drive beyond your range do you have to worry about intermittent charging during a drive




Under your “normal” conditions, at your preferred driving habits

The original point was made about a ~6hr drive and it needing to be a one-charge mission.

I'd love to see a study as to how many drivers expect (or would accept) that a transition to EV involves driving 60mph on the highway. Maybe I live in a different world, but I currently believe the answer is "not a majority".

 

[ScubaSteve_TheReal]

Range in any vehicle, whether ICE, EV, or Hybrid will always be a constant variable. To me to your own research and simply buy the vehicle that works best for your overall situation, there is no one shoe size that fits all. Only 3 months into my EV ownership have been eye opening but not a total surprise. I'm mostly a short commutes and in town driving person, so I knew I would be fine. The legacy ICE day lessons I've learned such as maintaining correct tire pressure, tire size choices and/or minus lift kits all affect our perceived experience that is unique to all of us. I love my first EV which is a 2023 F-150 Platinum Lightning and have zero regrets at all with the purchase, I pretty much knew what I was getting before I got it, it has not disappointed me. Each to there own.

 

[cvalue13]

I'd love to see a study as to how many drivers expect (or would accept) that a transition to EV involves driving 60mph on the highway. Maybe I live in a different world, but I currently believe the answer is "not a majority".

because it doesnt

for 90%+ of driven retail vehicle/consumer drives in the U.S. (eg commuting to work, etc.) people are able to drive however the hell they want

otherwise, if people dont understand how EPA ratings work, or the basics of driving a BEV shaped like an ice cream van, then they’ve got a lot of learning to do

remember, all these effects are also true of ICE vehicles. The main difference is only that there is fueling infrastructure every 10-50 miles, so people merely have the luxury to drive their ICE vehicles without regard for efficiency

The national speed limit was set to 55mph in 1974 because of the the fuel crisis, not safety (it was repealed upwards later because of the abundance of fuel)

If a person buys a BEV vehicle in 2023 thinking that physics doesn’t apply, I don’t know they can be helped

 

[Heliian]

I'd love to see a study as to how many drivers expect (or would accept) that a transition to EV involves driving 60mph on the highway.

Anyone that pays attention to fuel efficiency or has driven a truck before understands that.

I 100% expected to change my driving behavior with an EV. I haven't had to much but extending your range requires slower overall speeds, smooth acceleration and conscious use of regen.

 

[daveross1212]

Anyone that pays attention to fuel efficiency or has driven a truck before understands that.

I 100% expected to change my driving behavior with an EV. I haven't had to much but extending your range requires slower overall speeds, smooth acceleration and conscious use of regen.

I should have only said "accept that" instead of "expect that". I think it's well known that range is an issue and speed impacts range. I just don't think people are willing to drive 60mph to get the required range, and would rather wait until vehicles on the market have the capabilities they want. I think the sweet spot is comfortably doing 3hrs of highway speed (70+) in a variety of conditions before needing to charge. So I'm just saying we are close but not all the way there for the masses.

 

[cvalue13]

I think the sweet spot is comfortably doing 3hrs of highway speed (70+) in a variety of conditions before needing to charge.

under what real world conditions, exactly, is this not presently possible in an ER Lightning?

I’ll admit I live in TX, so it never really gets below 30° - but even then I believe I could comfortably make the 3hr drive from NW Austin to SW Houston no problem “doing 70”

In part because a drive “doing 70” in real world conditions entails averaging probably 55mph or less, door to door.

which is why the EPA tests are structured the way they are. for both ICE and BEV

or is what you’re actually saying is that people need to be able to peg it to 70 on a highway, then start a timer, and not stop doing 70 until the timer hits 3hr?

 

[daveross1212]

or is what you’re actually saying is that people need to be able to peg it to 70 on a highway, then start a timer, and not stop doing 70 until the timer hits 3hr?

Correct - 3 hrs between highway stops at 70mph or above. I do think we are *almost* there, and it meets my needs just fine. However, when I need to go beyond the ~90 minute radius from home (or 3hr radius if there is charging at my destination), I just switch vehicles w/ my wife and burn gas. I get that most EV shoppers are not going to be able to have that option.

 

[cvalue13]

Correct - 3 hrs between highway stops at 70mph or above.

I think what’s the confusion is you talk about a “3hr drive time” but you’re really describing a 4-hour+ real world drive with the middle portion consisting of a 3hr stretch of 75mph sustained hwy driving?

no EPA rating contemplates this sort of conditionality on range, ICE included

The highway fuel-economy estimates on window stickers come from EPA testing, in which the average speed is 48 mph.

some G-wagons could barely do half of it a 3-hour continuous 75mph sustained run

A Jeep Gladiator with a 3.6-liter gas-powered V-6 and an eight-speed automatic doesnreal world 15 mpg on the highway @75mph cruise for 200mi, 30 percent worse than the EPA's 22-mpg estimate. With a 22gal tank, that’s 330 miles from 100% full to 0% empty. Let’s say a person is at 90% tank when they get to the hwy and peg at 75mph (19.8gal) and starts about looking for refilling with 1/5 a tank left (4.4 gal) that leaves 15.4 gal of fuel, or 231 miles of range at 15mi/gal, or right at 3hr of drive time at 75mph - but ignores the fuel expended to (A) get to where they peg at 75 (eg home to clear HWY) and (B) get from hwy peg to destination (eg from clear HWY to within the city destination).

I just don’t think a Lightning ER is that far off these numbers/range capabilities in most conditions most of the year.

Which means all year in most of the south, west.

None of this is to say it’s not important to accomplish more range/charge infra for BEV to begin taking over the market.

But instead that I think loose/inaccurate talk about about the current “poor” range of BEVs does an unfair disservice to the rather competitive/impressive range of modern BEVs.

There are numerous ICE vehicles out there with near identical (or worse) range limitations. The main difference is the relative fueling/charging infra.

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