I have an outbuilding with no power installed. Can I install this, and have a 'standalone' off grid solution with ProPower 230v outlet? Thanks!

[Zaptor]

I know about the bonded neutral issue, just curious if I can basically be my own mini-grid and run lights, power tools, and loud heavy metal straight from the truck with this? Thanks in advance!
-Zap

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Relianc...Circuit-Transfer-Switch-Kit-3006HDK/202213700

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[Maquis]

I know about the bonded neutral issue, just curious if I can basically be my own mini-grid and run lights, power tools, and loud heavy metal straight from the truck with this? Thanks in advance!
-Zap

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Relianc...Circuit-Transfer-Switch-Kit-3006HDK/202213700

Yes, but you don’t need the transfer switch that you linked. A simple subpanel will work. Probably $30-ish. You will need to establish a grounding electrode system (ground rods).

Alternatively, you can simply plug into the truck.

 

[carys98]

If there’s no power to the building now what will you ”transfer”. If you just want to power the building from the truck all you need is a small breaker panel connected to a generator inlet.

 

[Maquis]

100A is overkill, but you won’t find anything much cheaper.

 

[carys98]

100A is overkill, but you won’t find anything much cheaper.

Plus one of these.
https://a.co/d/4uRw04U

 

[Maquis]

Plus one of these.
https://a.co/d/4uRw04U

Don’t tell anyone, but I’d be tempted to hard-wire the generator cord to the panel.

 

[Zaptor]

Awesome, thanks guys. Almost overspent, but makes total sense.
Cheers
-Zap

 

[carys98]

After thinking about it some more I have a question. Do you need 240V in the building? If not I would consider just putting a couple of these in the wall and wiring some outlets to them. The truck already provides GFCI and overcurrent protection so you don’t really need a panel. Just plug extension cords from the 120V outlets in the bed.
https://a.co/d/gQxUaQd

 

[Phineas Magliozzi]

After thinking about it some more I have a question. Do you need 240V in the building? If not I would consider just putting a couple of these in the wall and wiring some outlets to them. The truck already provides GFCI and overcurrent protection so you don’t really need a panel. Just plug extension cords from the 120V outlets in the bed.
https://a.co/d/gQxUaQd

I didn't know these existed. Takes all the fun out of my double-male extension cord solution.

 

[Zaptor]

After thinking about it some more I have a question. Do you need 240V in the building? If not I would consider just putting a couple of these in the wall and wiring some outlets to them. The truck already provides GFCI and overcurrent protection so you don’t really need a panel. Just plug extension cords from the 120V outlets in the bed.
https://a.co/d/gQxUaQd

Yes, I plan to install a 240V mini split for heating and cooling, but mostly dehumidification to keep my tools rust-free. Also probably a bigger welder than what I am currently running before too long... otherwise would make a good option for sure!
Thx
-Zap

 

[Garrik]

The thing that you mentioned at the very beginning, the bonding issue, is real.

As best I can tell, and I would love to be corrected, you cannot bond neutral to ground in your outbuilding and then plug that into your truck. You will trip the ground fault circuitry in the truck.

That means that you are establishing two separate grounds really - one for the truck and one for the building. They won't be tied together. And it means that your neutral in the building will be floating relative to the building's ground.

In a properly grounded "Separately Derived System", you would tie the ground on the truck (or generator) to the ground rod, and tie that in turn to the building's ground system (outlets and such). The truck (generator) would bond neutral to ground. That way, ground is an actual safety return path; and neutral does not float, creating potentially dangerous voltage differentials.

But I don't know any way to tie the truck's ground to the outside world.

If there is an actual trained electrician here, would love your POV. Apologies if this has been discussed ad-nauseam in another thread.

 

[Zaptor]

The thing that you mentioned at the very beginning, the bonding issue, is real.

As best I can tell, and I would love to be corrected, you cannot bond neutral to ground in your outbuilding and then plug that into your truck. You will trip the ground fault circuitry in the truck.

That means that you are establishing two separate grounds really - one for the truck and one for the building. They won't be tied together. And it means that your neutral in the building will be floating relative to the building's ground.

In a properly grounded "Separately Derived System", you would tie the ground on the truck (or generator) to the ground rod, and tie that in turn to the building's ground system (outlets and such). The truck (generator) would bond neutral to ground. That way, ground is an actual safety return path; and neutral does not float, creating potentially dangerous voltage differentials.

But I don't know any way to tie the truck's ground to the outside world.

If there is an actual trained electrician here, would love your POV. Apologies if this has been discussed ad-nauseam in another thread.

Thanks, while that is the way I understood it to be (theoretically) you articulated it well. Appreciate your input.
Cheers, have a good weekend
-Zap

 

[Maquis]

The thing that you mentioned at the very beginning, the bonding issue, is real.

As best I can tell, and I would love to be corrected, you cannot bond neutral to ground in your outbuilding and then plug that into your truck. You will trip the ground fault circuitry in the truck.

That means that you are establishing two separate grounds really - one for the truck and one for the building. They won't be tied together. And it means that your neutral in the building will be floating relative to the building's ground.

In a properly grounded "Separately Derived System", you would tie the ground on the truck (or generator) to the ground rod, and tie that in turn to the building's ground system (outlets and such). The truck (generator) would bond neutral to ground. That way, ground is an actual safety return path; and neutral does not float, creating potentially dangerous voltage differentials.

But I don't know any way to tie the truck's ground to the outside world.

If there is an actual trained electrician here, would love your POV. Apologies if this has been discussed ad-nauseam in another thread.

As long as the neutral is not bonded to ground in his panel, it’s fine.
That’s no different than if his building was fed from his house panel.

 

[Garrik]

Setting aside the question of code now, let's just talk about safety.

As long as the neutral is not bonded to ground in his panel, it’s fine.
That’s no different than if his building was fed from his house panel.

But is that really true? His "house panel" is actually grounded. With a real ground rod. Yes, the distance (and thus impedance/resistance) from the outbuilding to the house ground rod creates some safety issues. But at least there is a real safety ground.

Our trucks are floating islands of electricity. They are not grounded. At all. Their only contact with the "earth ground" is through four patches of rubber that are pretty good insulators. So as best I can tell, if you do the obvious thing that people are suggesting above (just set a 100 amp breaker panel, and attach the four wires from the truck to the panel with neutral NOT bonded to ground), you have no safety ground. No return path for stray current.

To me, that isn't very safe. Not to say that I wouldn't do it - just that the OP should be aware of the issues.

Now, just before anyone accuses me of being a purist, let me tell you that I am using my truck to charge my solar system batteries on my ranch (not a grid tied system, fully off grid). To do that, in order to avoid a ground fault, I am only carrying the two hot circuits through to my inverter/charger. I am just leaving ground and neutral from the truck floating. That is clearly a bad idea lol But it is working...

 

[Maquis]

Setting aside the question of code now, let's just talk about safety.



But is that really true? His "house panel" is actually grounded. With a real ground rod. Yes, the distance (and thus impedance/resistance) from the outbuilding to the house ground rod creates some safety issues. But at least there is a real safety ground.

Our trucks are floating islands of electricity. They are not grounded. At all. Their only contact with the "earth ground" is through four patches of rubber that are pretty good insulators. So as best I can tell, if you do the obvious thing that people are suggesting above (just set a 100 amp breaker panel, and attach the four wires from the truck to the panel with neutral NOT bonded to ground), you have no safety ground. No return path for stray current.

To me, that isn't very safe. Not to say that I wouldn't do it - just that the OP should be aware of the issues.

Now, just before anyone accuses me of being a purist, let me tell you that I am using my truck to charge my solar system batteries on my ranch (not a grid tied system, fully off grid). To do that, in order to avoid a ground fault, I am only carrying the two hot circuits through to my inverter/charger. I am just leaving ground and neutral from the truck floating. That is clearly a bad idea lol But it is working...

The new panel in the outbuilding requires a grounding electrode system regardless of where it’s fed from. Covered in post #2.

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