Lightning vs Silverado EV after the latest ford price increases/feature deletes?

[sando]

Model X price increased from 90k to 120.1k, a 34.4% increase, mainly due to battery material price increase and inflation. Chevy has no reason to escape.

Just look at Cybertruck price increase.

tesla is able to get away with those extreme price increases because the tesla cult allows it. Just like how people continued to pay 10k for fake promises (which were clearly fake at the time) around their FSD. There are the hardcore loyalists in every brand, but tesla loyalists are a different breed of "i'll pay any price for any crap they offer". They have probably the worst customer service in the auto business and have been way behind on "normal" features forever. For example, it wasn't that long ago that they got heated seats in $60k+ model 3 trims, and idk if they even have 360 camera view yet in any of their vehicles?

Even shill monro sandy monro that a bunch of people still seem to respect for some reason is clearly showing how deep into the tesla cult (or how deep they are into his pockets) here


"normally when i see a marketing brochure from ford, or general motors, or bmw, or anybody, um, they always exaggerate in their favor. The only guy that doesn't do that is elon musk. He always underestimates or understates what the tesla is gonna do. He likes people to be surprised i guess, i dunno."

^ almost fell out of my seat when he said that

anyway, I can't imagine any other brand getting away with that. Like do you think Ford would continue to sell the lightning platinum if the base price suddenly went up to 120k? (outside of small group of people who are already willing to pay 70k ADM)

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[sando]

I'm not sure how I feel about Chevy. They repurchase out bolt, though it took 6 months. They asked lots of information, which I provided within two business days on every occasion and I waited for them to get back to me in the timeframe they outlined. They always ran weeks late and it cost us an additional 3k in sales tax on our bolt replacement. The Silverado EV does have some features going for it and I have a first 5 minute reservation. I was able to order a lightning in February, so likely will not convert my Silverado EV reservation. I am more of an EV person than traditional truck person, though we have had a truck in the household since 2011. Ford won the race and luckily I got the chance to order one.

yeah having to deal with their buyback process sounds like it really sucked. A major blunder on their part for sure. I wonder if they would have stepped up their game if there was actual competition at the bolt's pricepoint in the EV market.

 

[Roy2001]

tesla is able to get away with those extreme price increases because the tesla cult allows it. Just like how people continued to pay 10k for fake promises (which were clearly fake at the time) around their FSD. There are the hardcore loyalists in every brand, but tesla loyalists are a different breed of "i'll pay any price for any crap they offer". They have probably the worst customer service in the auto business and have been way behind on "normal" features forever. For example, it wasn't that long ago that they got heated seats in $60k+ model 3 trims, and idk if they even have 360 camera view yet in any of their vehicles?

Even shill monro sandy monro that a bunch of people still seem to respect for some reason is clearly showing how deep into the tesla cult (or how deep they are into his pockets) here


"normally when i see a marketing brochure from ford, or general motors, or bmw, or anybody, um, they always exaggerate in their favor. The only guy that doesn't do that is elon musk. He always underestimates or understates what the tesla is gonna do. He likes people to be surprised i guess, i dunno."

^ almost fell out of my seat when he said that

anyway, I can't imagine any other brand getting away with that. Like do you think Ford would continue to sell the lightning platinum if the base price suddenly went up to 120k? (outside of small group of people who are already willing to pay 70k ADM)

Cult, yes I guess that is accurate.

I never heard anyone on teslamotorsforum complain about price increase. If not my wife, I would flip the Model X which I locked the price before any increase.

 

[Bigpoppa]

So like many here, I'm pretty annoyed with Ford's price increases for the 2023 lightning, and now I'm starting to take a serious look at the silverado EV, which I wasn't even considering before. Not only did they increase the prices, but deleting features (onboard scales is something I actually wanted because I plan on transporting woodworking machinery in the truck that weighs north of 1k lbs). Also the recently discussed ordeal with the crappy seat leather quality in the lariat has me pretty annoyed.

I was leaning towards a 2023 lariat ER and spending the cash on the HIS as well (I already have 400 amp service and plenty of open panel space at my house, so this wouldn't be a huge expense for me), but now that the 2023 lariat ER is effectively $17k+ more expensive than the 2022 model, I'm backing away from that. Not to mention the fact that any ER for non-fleet is over 80k has me not even considering an ER now.

The silverado EV SRT first edition (the fancy fully loaded initial top end variant) at 105k is no longer a huge leap above a 2023 platinum or even a loaded lariat.

From what GM has revealed so far, the silverado does seem to have quite a bit of an edge over the lightning for many things (assuming you can spec it in the $80k range and not lose everything).

Silverado wins:

Some major advantages of the silverado for me now that I really think about it:

1. Longer bed + midgate + built in panel thing on end of tail gate to help secure long items with tailgate down. My main need for a truck right now is hauling sheetgoods and long boards (10+ft long hardwood boards). The silverado's bed in standard mode is already bigger than the lightning's, but add in the midgate and you now have over 9 ft of weather proof storage (open the bottom of the mid gate and close the included tanneau cover). That is a massive win for me, when i'll be driving an hour and a half + each way to my hardwood dealer of choice and won't have to worry about the weather. Add in the fact that you can also remove the glass portion of the midgate wall as well, and easily shove a full size couch in there, it starts to seem more and more of a win for "truck things" that you can do with it.
2. The 400 mile range is another massive win. As mentioned, if I'm traveling over 3 hours round trip to my hardwood dealer, I should have much less range anxiety doing highway speeds the whole time (especially in winter here where negative temps are common) than I would with an ER lightning.
3. Though we don't know what kind of home integration system that GM will be offering for the silverado ev at this time, we do know that it can output slightly more power than the lightning can (10.2kw i believe?) and will not be affiliated with sunrun (and hopefully no one worse).
4. rear wheel steering - I think that a lot of people underestimate this feature. I've have plenty of times where I'm in crowded, undersized parking lots that make it a nightmare to pull into spots or even navigate around the lanes in a full sized truck. Having a turning radius similar to a civic will be a wonderful perk. Supposedly the rear wheel steering also makes driving with a trailer a lot nicer, though I suppose we will have to see that for ourselves.
5. Much more useful tailgate. The huge step, the ability to open the top half (both when raised for long items, and when lowered to get more reach into the bed), and the pop up panel for supporting long items is just far better than "normal" the gate on the lightning.
6. 350KW charging. doesn't need much explaining, but for all the people who complain about transitioning to EVs because of having to waste a ton of time charging, this is a difference maker. 100 miles of range in 10 minutes is great. Now, obviously there's not a ton of 350kw chargers out there at the moment, but there is a big push for high speed charger expansion, and with tesla opening up their superchargers soon (250kw i think?) the charging difference between the 2 trucks will become a real thing in no time.
7. No gear shifter in the center stack. The silverado EV has the shifter on the steering column. This means an absolutely massive center storage compartment. ( I think they said something like 17 gallons?). Plus having an automated mechanical shifter to lower/raise on the lightning is just overly complex engineering and something that can break. No idea why ford kept this.

Some minor advantages of the silverado for me:

1. Having a HUD - I've always been a fan of having information directly in front of me without needing to take my eyes off of the road. I'm not sure what all GM will be supporting in their HUD, but if its anything like the german luxury brands, then it will be a very welcome addition for me
2. Styling - double edged sword for me. I don't necessarily care for the front end styling of the silverado overall, but I much prefer the narrow, low profile LED light bar over the bloated cheap looking one on the lightning (personal preference)
3. Air suspension / adjustable ride height - could make the ride alot better, could also provide no real value. Will have to see, but the option of raising/lowering the suspension is nice to have.

Lightning wins:

1. At the moment, it looks like the lightning has a bigger and more feature-full frunk - though GM says they are still finalizing the silverado frunk. Will have to wait and see.
2. Traditional truck styling is important to some people... so this may be a win for you. For me, I don't care either way as long as it looks like a well-designed vehicle.
3. Transitioning to android automotive OS soon. I have AAOS in a volvo EV right now and for me it is a game changer. The voice command recognition just works the way you would expect on your cell phone. On top of that, google maps are better than any proprietary system that any auto maker tries to put in their vehicles. Yeah yeah, you can always use android auto/apple carplay but i prefer to have nothing rely on my phone if possible, and having AAOS fully integrated into the vehicle is just a more seamless experience. GM will be using their new "Ultifi" software platform for the first time in the silverado EV and I don't know much about it other than "its linux based" which hopefully means native google maps/voice support but we will see.
4. Ford's push to move EV sales away from dealerships will likely lead to a better long-term EV experience for lightning owners, but obviously that varies based on your local dealer.
5. Payload capacity. The lightning pro has a ton more payload capacity than the silverado WT, but the silverado RST is pretty close to a platinum / lariat so for anyone getting a more "luxurious" trim, this should be a wash.
6. Work surface in center stack is pretty cool... though not available on the pro trim, where it would be most useful? What was ford thinking?

Well that's all I can think of right now. I have absolutely 0 brand loyalty so I don't care whose badge is on my vehicle as long as it gives me the experience that I want. TBH I've been avoiding the traditional brands over the last decade based on previous poor experiences and low quality vehicles, but I don't have much of a choice for an EV truck that fits my needs at the moment so here I am.

It seems like the silverado is the clear winner in terms of "truck things" that people like to bash it for, so I'm not sure what's up with that sentiment? Outside of payload on the base model, you get more than double the effective bed size (including weatherproof cover), more range, more drivetrain power, more onboard power, more advanced tech (hud, rear wheel steering).

Again, I had no brand loyalty. I reserved a lightning last year and just put in a silverado reservation this week (initially i didn't even consider it because i was really happy about being able to get a lariat ER for under 80k + get a tax credit for it).

Does anyone feel the same/different? I know this is a lightning forum and will obviously have a lightning bias, but I think it is important to have honest discussions about this stuff. Blind brand loyalty hurts the consumer in the end. Competition leads to lower prices and more features for all of us.

FWIW, I'm not going to be purchasing a 105k SRT, but waiting to see if they come out with a ~80k trim that suits my needs. I will probably go through with a lightning purchase if I get an invite this year, though it won't be for an ER and I won't be paying for HIS (having to buy a pro charging station + paying an activation fee on a SR on top of purchasing the sunrun equipment sucks), and then trade it for a silverado in a few years if they come out with the right trim options for me.

Can anyone tell me why they think the lightning is better at "truck stuff"? I'm totally lost there.

Well the biggest reason is the Lightning is here! Grandma used to always say "A bird in hand is better than 10 in the bush". You made some great points, and they would certainly be items I would consider when I'm ready to trade my Lightning!

 

[broncoaz]

I have a personal reservation for the Chevy and I’m a fleet manager for a company with 140+ Chevy trucks. I have asked my chevy fleet manager to put me first in line for a fleet model when he can order one. My SR Pro Lightning is in transit, so I’m looking forward to it.

 

[Maxx]

A ground up design vehicle is only real after at least a year of production and user reviews. I have a Rivian reservation and there are a lot of them on the road now but it is still not ready. It feels like it has at least another year of tweaks before I could be OK with it. GM is not a new company and probably will do better than Rivian out of the gate but I would not spend too much time speculating over it before 25. I have a reservation for Silverado too and love that midgate but it is not here. Even though on the first wave on MY22 I got the sold out message for Pro first round, on second try, Ford still may beat others with my order. If you love silverado, hate others and don’t need a ride right now, wait. For me all my reservations have a bunch of compromises in them so I go with the earliest and reevaluate later.

 

[uthorns1976]

While I admit to being only a little bit familiar with the Chevy EV, I think your post on it indirectly gets at the real difference: the F150L exists.

Not until the Chevy EV exists as production models, with real world stats, known pricing, etc., is there any real comparison to be made. And when that Chevy EV exists, the comparison will be against whatever is the then-current F150L.

That said, and this is purely a matter of personal taste: just when I thought the Avalanche couldn’t get any uglier, Chevy said “hold my battery”

I totally agree with you. Chevy really spanked the monkey with the Evalanche, a.k.a. Silverado EV. Avalanche was a real loser to begin with. Why bring it back as an EV?? Stupid.

Ford is pricing the Lightning above what the market will bear, IMO.

 

[Roy2001]

Well the biggest reason is the Lightning is here! Grandma used to always say "A bird in hand is better than 10 in the bush". You made some great points, and they would certainly be items I would consider when I'm ready to trade my Lightning!

Yes Lightning is here. But, for those who did not have a chance to reserve yet, the wait time for either Lightning or Silverado EV could be similar.

 

[Roy2001]

Ford is pricing the Lightning above what the market will bear, IMO.

Lion battery price jumped from $140/kWh to $200/kWh. That means battery cost for SR jumped by $6000, and jumped $8000 for ER. That does not count inflation of other parts/chips and labor cost increase.

Ford has no choice. As I mentioned, Tesla price increased close to 35% since last summer across all models and their gross margin is actually lower now.

So I do expect Silverado EV and Cybertruck price jump, a lot.

 

[sotek2345]

I totally agree with you. Chevy really spanked the monkey with the Evalanche, a.k.a. Silverado EV. Avalanche was a real loser to being with. Why bring it back as an EV?? Stupid.

Ford is pricing the Lightning above what the market will bear, IMO.

I strongly doubt they are above what the market will bear. The price increases may have pushed many out, but they will still sell every unit they can make in 2023 at the new prices. 95%+ of them before they are even built.

 

[davehu]

.....I plan on transporting woodworking machinery in the truck that weighs north of 1k lbs)....

must be moving a Powermatic lathe?

 

[sando]

must be moving a Powermatic lathe?

16 inch Felder jointer/planer and a large spindle molder on my wishlist

 

[Ruination]

If I were you I would start looking at the ram and reserve when it opens lol.

 

[cvalue13]

but man how late to the game are they going to be.

agree, but admit my interest is raised by these suggestions of a “backup” gas engine being included as an emergency range-extender

for pickup purposes, and transition-adoption purposes, I wonder if the first to offer this sort of feature won’t have decent success!

 

[cvalue13]

We call that a Hybrid Engine in Louisiana, and it's technically possible on the F150 Lightning.

guess it’s a “hybrid” in some sort if sense, but of course it’s not a “hybrid” of the sort we’ve become accustomed to thinking of when we think of”hybrid” vehicles. I think more the jargon is a “range-extender,” like on the BMWi3, which includes a gasoline engine only used to charge the batteries, not connected to the wheels.

im no expert, but I *think* that’s the distinction between a true “hybrid” and a “range-extender”: the former can use and switch to a gas engine to move the wheels, whereas the later uses a gas engine only to charge the batteries.

unlike the BMW i3, I think a full-sized pickup with the right “range extender” set-up could be a category-winning option. Say (hypothetically), a pickup with 500mi battery range around town could ALSO have a 300 mi towing range if and only when utilizing a tool-box sized “range-extending” option located in the bed of the truck.

With the RAM, everything is fake news and conjecture, except that Dodge has said the Ram BEV would offer “onboard power” and a “paradigm breaker” technology. Conjecture from there wonders if it’s a “range extender”

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