Lightning vs Silverado EV after the latest ford price increases/feature deletes?

[sando]

So like many here, I'm pretty annoyed with Ford's price increases for the 2023 lightning, and now I'm starting to take a serious look at the silverado EV, which I wasn't even considering before. Not only did they increase the prices, but deleting features (onboard scales is something I actually wanted because I plan on transporting woodworking machinery in the truck that weighs north of 1k lbs). Also the recently discussed ordeal with the crappy seat leather quality in the lariat has me pretty annoyed.

I was leaning towards a 2023 lariat ER and spending the cash on the HIS as well (I already have 400 amp service and plenty of open panel space at my house, so this wouldn't be a huge expense for me), but now that the 2023 lariat ER is effectively $17k+ more expensive than the 2022 model, I'm backing away from that. Not to mention the fact that any ER for non-fleet is over 80k has me not even considering an ER now.

The silverado EV SRT first edition (the fancy fully loaded initial top end variant) at 105k is no longer a huge leap above a 2023 platinum or even a loaded lariat.

From what GM has revealed so far, the silverado does seem to have quite a bit of an edge over the lightning for many things (assuming you can spec it in the $80k range and not lose everything).

Silverado wins:

Some major advantages of the silverado for me now that I really think about it:

1. Longer bed + midgate + built in panel thing on end of tail gate to help secure long items with tailgate down. My main need for a truck right now is hauling sheetgoods and long boards (10+ft long hardwood boards). The silverado's bed in standard mode is already bigger than the lightning's, but add in the midgate and you now have over 9 ft of weather proof storage (open the bottom of the mid gate and close the included tanneau cover). That is a massive win for me, when i'll be driving an hour and a half + each way to my hardwood dealer of choice and won't have to worry about the weather. Add in the fact that you can also remove the glass portion of the midgate wall as well, and easily shove a full size couch in there, it starts to seem more and more of a win for "truck things" that you can do with it.
2. The 400 mile range is another massive win. As mentioned, if I'm traveling over 3 hours round trip to my hardwood dealer, I should have much less range anxiety doing highway speeds the whole time (especially in winter here where negative temps are common) than I would with an ER lightning.
3. Though we don't know what kind of home integration system that GM will be offering for the silverado ev at this time, we do know that it can output slightly more power than the lightning can (10.2kw i believe?) and will not be affiliated with sunrun (and hopefully no one worse).
4. rear wheel steering - I think that a lot of people underestimate this feature. I've have plenty of times where I'm in crowded, undersized parking lots that make it a nightmare to pull into spots or even navigate around the lanes in a full sized truck. Having a turning radius similar to a civic will be a wonderful perk. Supposedly the rear wheel steering also makes driving with a trailer a lot nicer, though I suppose we will have to see that for ourselves.
5. Much more useful tailgate. The huge step, the ability to open the top half (both when raised for long items, and when lowered to get more reach into the bed), and the pop up panel for supporting long items is just far better than "normal" the gate on the lightning.
6. 350KW charging. doesn't need much explaining, but for all the people who complain about transitioning to EVs because of having to waste a ton of time charging, this is a difference maker. 100 miles of range in 10 minutes is great. Now, obviously there's not a ton of 350kw chargers out there at the moment, but there is a big push for high speed charger expansion, and with tesla opening up their superchargers soon (250kw i think?) the charging difference between the 2 trucks will become a real thing in no time.
7. No gear shifter in the center stack. The silverado EV has the shifter on the steering column. This means an absolutely massive center storage compartment. ( I think they said something like 17 gallons?). Plus having an automated mechanical shifter to lower/raise on the lightning is just overly complex engineering and something that can break. No idea why ford kept this.

Some minor advantages of the silverado for me:

1. Having a HUD - I've always been a fan of having information directly in front of me without needing to take my eyes off of the road. I'm not sure what all GM will be supporting in their HUD, but if its anything like the german luxury brands, then it will be a very welcome addition for me
2. Styling - double edged sword for me. I don't necessarily care for the front end styling of the silverado overall, but I much prefer the narrow, low profile LED light bar over the bloated cheap looking one on the lightning (personal preference)
3. Air suspension / adjustable ride height - could make the ride alot better, could also provide no real value. Will have to see, but the option of raising/lowering the suspension is nice to have.

Lightning wins:

1. At the moment, it looks like the lightning has a bigger and more feature-full frunk - though GM says they are still finalizing the silverado frunk. Will have to wait and see.
2. Traditional truck styling is important to some people... so this may be a win for you. For me, I don't care either way as long as it looks like a well-designed vehicle.
3. Transitioning to android automotive OS soon. I have AAOS in a volvo EV right now and for me it is a game changer. The voice command recognition just works the way you would expect on your cell phone. On top of that, google maps are better than any proprietary system that any auto maker tries to put in their vehicles. Yeah yeah, you can always use android auto/apple carplay but i prefer to have nothing rely on my phone if possible, and having AAOS fully integrated into the vehicle is just a more seamless experience. GM will be using their new "Ultifi" software platform for the first time in the silverado EV and I don't know much about it other than "its linux based" which hopefully means native google maps/voice support but we will see.
4. Ford's push to move EV sales away from dealerships will likely lead to a better long-term EV experience for lightning owners, but obviously that varies based on your local dealer.
5. Payload capacity. The lightning pro has a ton more payload capacity than the silverado WT, but the silverado RST is pretty close to a platinum / lariat so for anyone getting a more "luxurious" trim, this should be a wash.
6. Work surface in center stack is pretty cool... though not available on the pro trim, where it would be most useful? What was ford thinking?

Well that's all I can think of right now. I have absolutely 0 brand loyalty so I don't care whose badge is on my vehicle as long as it gives me the experience that I want. TBH I've been avoiding the traditional brands over the last decade based on previous poor experiences and low quality vehicles, but I don't have much of a choice for an EV truck that fits my needs at the moment so here I am.

It seems like the silverado is the clear winner in terms of "truck things" that people like to bash it for, so I'm not sure what's up with that sentiment? Outside of payload on the base model, you get more than double the effective bed size (including weatherproof cover), more range, more drivetrain power, more onboard power, more advanced tech (hud, rear wheel steering).

Again, I had no brand loyalty. I reserved a lightning last year and just put in a silverado reservation this week (initially i didn't even consider it because i was really happy about being able to get a lariat ER for under 80k + get a tax credit for it).

Does anyone feel the same/different? I know this is a lightning forum and will obviously have a lightning bias, but I think it is important to have honest discussions about this stuff. Blind brand loyalty hurts the consumer in the end. Competition leads to lower prices and more features for all of us.

FWIW, I'm not going to be purchasing a 105k SRT, but waiting to see if they come out with a ~80k trim that suits my needs. I will probably go through with a lightning purchase if I get an invite this year, though it won't be for an ER and I won't be paying for HIS (having to buy a pro charging station + paying an activation fee on a SR on top of purchasing the sunrun equipment sucks), and then trade it for a silverado in a few years if they come out with the right trim options for me.

Can anyone tell me why they think the lightning is better at "truck stuff"? I'm totally lost there.

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[RavenYZF-R6]

I think with a reservation this week, you will run into the exact same issues on pricing by the time you can order. Wouldn’t be surprised if Chevy matches the prices of the lightning whenever they come out. Similar model to similar model. They might have a smattering of WT for 40k but I imagine it will be very limited again. I have a first five second reservation with them but don’t expect to follow through, especially missing the income restriction on the new rebates.

I would order the Lightning and decide when it comes. Maybe flip for cash to pay for the Chevy.

 

[sando]

I think with a reservation this week, you will run into the exact same issues on pricing by the time you can order. Wouldn’t be surprised if Chevy matches the prices of the lightning whenever they come out. Similar model to similar model. They might have a smattering of WT for 40k but I imagine it will be very limited again. I have a first five second reservation with them but don’t expect to follow through, especially missing the income restriction on the new rebates.

I would order the Lightning and decide when it comes. Maybe flip for cash to pay for the Chevy.

That could 100% be true, we will definitely have to see. I'm not expecting to be offered a silverado order until 2024 at the earliest. However, even if they do price match the lightning, I still think that the silverado currently offers more features than the lightning, so it would at least make me feel better about choosing to sell the lightning for it when the time came.

It will be interesting to see what ford does with the next generation of lightning (though that probably won't be until 2025+?) to try and match features of the competition.

I'm definitely going to be ordering a lightning when I get offered a slot (I really need a truck right now and I've been waiting for an EV one) but it just won't be the initial trim/features that I wanted. I'm sure it will serve me well for 2 years or so that I own it before I have to make a decision about purchasing the silverado (or even some other EV truck that it out around that time).

The HIS was a major feature for me too (and one of the main reasons that I didn't go with rivian, other than the bed size) but the nightmare of dealing with SunRun, and the extra fees needed for an SR to use it just really sucks.

 

[cvalue13]

While I admit to being only a little bit familiar with the Chevy EV, I think your post on it indirectly gets at the real difference: the F150L exists.

Not until the Chevy EV exists as production models, with real world stats, known pricing, etc., is there any real comparison to be made. And when that Chevy EV exists, the comparison will be against whatever is the then-current F150L.

That said, and this is purely a matter of personal taste: just when I thought the Avalanche couldn’t get any uglier, Chevy said “hold my battery”

 

[F150ROD]

Chevy will undercut Ford by 1-2k….. enjoy your Silverado

 

[sando]

While I admit to being only a little bit familiar with the Chevy EV, I think your post on it indirectly gets at the real difference: the F150L exists.

Not until the Chevy EV exists as production models, with real world stats, known pricing, etc., is there any real comparison to be made. And when that Chevy EV exists, the comparison will be against whatever is the then-current F150L.

That said, and this is purely a matter of personal taste: just when I thought the Avalanche couldn’t get any uglier, Chevy said “hold my battery”

Yeah ford does have the first-to-market advantage for sure, and if Chevy starts deleting features like Ford when the deliveries start, then I'll be just as annoyed with them.

I'm not a massive fan of the avalanche styling myself, but overall I do think the Silverado SRT looks like a more premium product (like the narrow light bar I mentioned, and little things like the slapped-on rear bumper of the lightning vs integrated one on the Silverado). However neither looks like a $80k+ vehicle to me (although I do like think the Silverado SRT interior look more premium than a lightning platinum).

 

[sando]

Chevy will undercut Ford by 1-2k….. enjoy your Silverado

well, if Chevy can get a $80k Silverado EV to market before ford releases the next generation redesigned lightning, (and keep the 400mile range and midgate on that trim level) then any undercut would be just a bonus

 

[beatle]

I like the Silverado for all the reasons you listed, but I really like the fact that the Lightning shares many components with the ICE truck. Since you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one, that means parts are plentiful and cheap. While I'm sure the Silverado will still be less expensive to keep running than a Tesla, the TCO for the Lightning is probably better.

 

[cvalue13]

However neither looks like a $80k+ vehicle to me

To be fair, both vehicles are only >$80k for reasons deep inside the vehicles, not because they are premium/luxury vehicles

I do like think the Silverado SRT interior look more premium than a lightning platinum

Well, the rendering of Chevy’s (presumably) interior looks quite nice

 

[sando]

To be fair, both vehicles are only >$80k for reasons deep inside the vehicles, not because they are premium/luxury vehicles




Well, the rendering of Chevy’s (presumably) interior looks quite nice

Chevy has a physical mannequin that they have been bringing to live shows and letting a limited number of YouTube channels review/sit inside. But, to your point, they have made it clear that it is a "intent to produce" (or whatever the phrase is) model that comes before pre-production so it very well could go downhill when the real thing materializes.

 

[adoublee]

How do you feel about Chevy's handling of their battery debacle? Do you think they should have caught the issue before production vehicles hit the road? How do you feel about their execution on all previous EV's - have they proven they can bring a desirable EV to market?

Reminder that Bolt owners were commanded to keep vehicles parked outside and keep charged within a restricted SOC window (monitorable by Chevy, resulting in reduced range) until their vehicle could get battery repaired/replaced.

 

[cvalue13]

very well could go downhill when the real thing materializes.

I hope not, as I do think a competitor with Ford could land a stout body blow by having a more upscale or just forward-looking interior

That said, and moving now to complete conjecture:

1. I think Ford may have intentionally left the F150 otherwise familiar and untouched, to in essence emphasize that this is just a F150

2. at the same time, Ford may have also simply focused on being first to market, and future irritations might prove that out

 

[sando]

How do you feel about Chevy's handling of their battery debacle? Do you think they should have caught the issue before production vehicles hit the road? How do you feel about their execution on all previous EV's - have they proven they can bring a desirable EV to market?

Reminder that Bolt owners were commanded to keep vehicles parked outside and keep charged within a restricted SOC window (monitorable by Chevy, resulting in reduced range) until their vehicle could get battery repaired/replaced.

I think that they handled it terribly tbh. Though I'm sure the replacement batteries (once they figured out the problem) may not have been readily available due to supply chain issues and such, I think they should have offered to buy back all affected vehicles immediately.

I'm hoping that the new ultium battery platform is ultimately safer and future issues will be better handled, though I'm not sure I would have trusted ford to handle it any better tbh. Most auto makers go out of their way to not do the right thing... Just look at how Hyundai handled their engines catching on fire not too long ago.. and well look at how Tesla handles everything.

Not making an excuse for GM, but I think that they happened to be the unlucky ones that got caught up in that situation and handled it how most other manufacturers would have.

I do think that they have proved that they can bring a desirable EV to market because despite the battery issue, the EV community still eats up the bolt and bolt EUV. They managed to bring an affordable EV to market that is desirable to people who drive "normal" affordable cars

 

[sando]

I hope not, as I do think a competitor with Ford could land a stout body blow by having a more upscale or just forward-looking interior

That said, and moving now to complete conjecture:

1. I think Ford may have intentionally left the F150 otherwise familiar and untouched, to in essence emphasize that this is just a F150

2. at the same time, Ford may have also simply focused on being first to market, and future irritations might prove that out

Agreed, and I personally think too many auto manufacturers get lazy with their interior designs over time. Certain brands will come out with something nice, and then not touch it for 10 years while the rest of the industry leaves them way behind.

 

[sotek2345]

Agreed, and I personally think too many auto manufacturers get lazy with their interior designs over time. Certain brands will come out with something nice, and then not touch it for 10 years while the rest of the industry leaves them way behind.

True, but the F150 interior (which the Lightning uses) was new for 2021.

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