Multiple Ongoing Water Leaks - Entering Arbitration

[RandomguyinPNW]

We had be LOVING our '23 Lightning Lariat! We purchased March 2023 and other than not having my canopy for camping season (backordered...got it in September), we loved everything about the truck.

• Range: Non-issue, just takes a bit of thought and planning.
• Size: Coming from a Tacoma, it was AMAZING to have all that extra space inside the truck and in the bed.
• Comfort: This truck is like driving a Lazyboy down the road.

Fast forward to January 2024. I hadn't driven much since before Christmas, mostly working from home. We discover mold growing all over the carpet. A quick search online led me to multiple instances of water leaks and sure enough....under my rubber, all weather mats was a completely saturated carpet from firewall to behind the rear seats. Who knows how long it had been leaking.

Take the truck in, no loaner offered, several days go by and they have "fixed" the leak and replaced the carpet, as well as "cleaned and detailed" the entire interior.
The mold smell was so bad it was making my eyes water before even leaving the dealership. I made another appointment to bring it back, it wasn't driveable in that state.

After 2 more attempts, that dealer simply took in the truck, held it for a couple days and gave it back saying there wasn't anything wrong. No mold smell, no leaks, no rusty seat hinges.

Ford BEV team suggested I take it to the dealer I purchased from (2 hours away) and get a 2nd opinion.

Case opened with BBB Autoline.

I dropped it off 3/14, no loaners available. My son had to drive down and pick me up (4 hour round trip).

3/18 - call from service advisor saying they found "multiple leaks both front and rear of the cab" and they'd need the truck "for at least 2 weeks" to properly dry, diagnose, repair and confirm there weren't any more leaks.

3/28 - get a call from my BEV representative at Ford saying my case has been closed, contact BBB Autoline with anything further.

4/2 - BBB rep says Ford offered to "Send a field rep" to inspect the vehicle and see it through repair and offered a complimentary "Premium Care Extended Warranty"....

I declined and now waiting to schedule an Arbitration hearing.

Has anyone went through Arbitration for a buyback? It seemed like most of the buybacks I've found didn't mention that but maybe it's a normal part of the process?

I appear to easily qualify for Oregon's Lemon Law, cumulative 30 days (for any reason) out of service in the first 24,000 miles or 24 months.

Pics cuz...ewe.

 

[Dan C]

I have never done a buy back but have used the CA lemon law twice. Documentation is the key. Every correspondence and conversation needs to be documented. That lets them know you are serious.

 

[gmarcucio]

Does that have the sunroof? I thought one of the pics you posted was a pic of the sun roof?

 

[JDF231223]

Will you buy another lightning or what is your plan for your next vehicle?

 

[RandomguyinPNW]

Does that have the sunroof? I thought one of the pics you posted was a pic of the sun roof?

It does have the twin-panel moonroof but I didn't have any leaking from plugged drains to my knowledge. But there's always water running through those channels to the drains...it seems like a bizarre design but maybe that's how they all are? I don't understand where that water is coming from when the moonroof is closed.

 

[RandomguyinPNW]

Will you buy another lightning or what is your plan for your next vehicle?

Great question! I think a lot depends on how the rest of this process plays out. This was my first Ford, my first American vehicle and my worst experience with a manufacturer.

 

[kstype]

Wow - I have never seen this with my Lariat ER with Moonroof. Hope I never do. I did see other posts where the water as coming in via a bad section on the passenger front firewall area, but I check my carpet all the time and her never seen this. Hope they come to an equitable solution for you.

 

[RandomguyinPNW]

Wow - I have never seen this with my Lariat ER with Moonroof. Hope I never do. I did see other posts where the water as coming in via a bad section on the passenger front firewall area, but I check my carpet all the time and her never seen this. Hope they come to an equitable solution for you.

So far, since January they've found:
Both Cabin Vents leaking due to bad installation.
Missing Rivets in Passenger C Pillar.
Unspecified body joint that was missing sealer.
Unspecified body joint that had cracking sealer.

Currently in the shop after tech saw "multiple leaks front and rear of cabin"

 

[kstype]

So far, since January they've found:
Both Cabin Vents leaking due to bad installation.
Missing Rivets in Passenger C Pillar.
Unspecified body joint that was missing sealer.
Unspecified body joint that had cracking sealer.

Currently in the shop after tech saw "multiple leaks front and rear of cabin"

Must have been a bad day on the UAW floor...

 

[Bigred]

4/2 - BBB rep says Ford offered to "Send a field rep" to inspect the vehicle and see it through repair and offered a complimentary "Premium Care Extended Warranty"....

May I ask why you declined?

I received a similar offer recently but not quite at the 30 days mark.
Is this a ploy to dissuade us from pursuing a buyback by offering this as compensation?

I wonder does accepting this offer cause you to waive any rights to request buyback or pursuing a lemon law claim. It says limited time offer and would have to accept before the 30 day mark.

 

[RandomguyinPNW]

May I ask why you declined?

I received a similar offer recently but not quite at the 30 days mark.
Is this a ploy to dissuade us from pursuing a buyback by offering this as compensation?

I wonder does accepting this offer cause you to waive any rights to request buyback or pursuing a lemon law claim. It says limited time offer and would have to accept before the 30 day mark.

My understanding was that I could have agreed to let the Field Rep come out and take a look at my truck and work through the repairs (which could take months) and still have the option to decline the offer of the extended warranty. Knowing I was over the 30 day threshold for Oregon's Lemon Law I didn't see any point in dragging it out in that manner, at that point I had no interest in getting my truck back after all the hassle.

I believe if you accept their offer you are foregoing any future claims via the Lemon Law for that particular issue, but that may vary state to state.

I'd be hesitant to take back any vehicle that has been in the shop for 30+ days in the first year...I wouldn't be able to trust that it isn't going to have continuing issues beyond the warranty. Can they keep fixing it...probably. Do you want to deal with the hassle of having your truck in and out of the shop? Not me.

 

[SmoothJ]

Several years ago I had an alignment problem with my Ford - no matter who I brought it to it will always want to steer left. I had countless days in the shop due to this issue.

After contacting a lemon law attorney we took it up with Ford and several months later we were in court. My lawyer advised not to say anything and let him do all the talking. They offered numerous things (including warranty extensions). At the end of the day we wanted something “not on the menu” and a few calls later we got what we came for. My lawyer was happy and so was I.

Ironically enough, several months after I got rid of that car, I found a TSB for the exact issue I was having. It took a lawsuit, time, and loss of money for it to happen though.

I hope your issue gets resolved to your liking. It may take time along with some work, but you will get there.

 

[Whoabeats]

I recently replied to an older post about this topic, but I am having a similar experience (‘23 Pro bought in April ‘23, worth noting obviously not a sunroof issue). I did not test for mold but my truck had some serious mildew funk that would soak into any fabric that would come close. I’m coming up on 14 days in the shop. The service department seems like straight shooters and admitted that it’s a bad situation and there is information in the Ford internal mechanic forums about this water intrusion issue. If you watch the Munro Live YT video about the lightning BIW breakdown the engineers talk about the cabin sealant and how Ford tried to get this right due to past issues. How ironic Lightning that can’t handle the rain.

I previously had a 2017 Chevy volt bought back because it needed the same repair 4 times. I had a terrible experience and didnt document conversations as well as I should have. After wasting months and having GM corporate reject my request for buyback I filed a letter with a BBB claim and then they offered to buy back the car for what I paid (I had done 25k miles) only stipulation was that money had to be used towards a Chevy so I bought another volt and had a good 120k with my 2019. Pretty sure the way it was handled GM saved that car from being hailed as a lemon, but I got what I wanted sort of (double tax rebates was sweet).

Sucks I find myself in this scenario again because I also had my 2014 vw sportwagen tdi bought back in 2016. I absolutely love my lightning but this type of quality control issue is concerning.

 

[Lytning Stryks]

I have a very similar issue with my lightning. My truck has basically been at the dealership service department for 3 months. Originally, they said there was no leak. Then they found it after I brought it back because it started to smell and was clear signs of moisture. Once they fixed the leak, the smell had penetrated basically everything.

I am told they have basically replaced the entire interior (seats, seat cushions, headliner, carpets, etc). Just today they told me it still smells after doing this, now they are going to replace the door panels, which is the only thing they have not replaced.

I requested a buyback under the lemon law on April 2. They told me I would hear back within 15 to 30 days. I have yet to hear back. I call and email Ford and they will not connect me to the buyback department as they "are not customer facing" and they do not provide any explanation as to what the delay is on the buyback claim. Extremely frustrating situation. I am going to be reaching out to a lawyer very soon.

@Ford Motor Company has got to treat customers better than this...

 

[RandomguyinPNW]

I have a very similar issue with my lightning. My truck has basically been at the dealership service department for 3 months. Originally, they said there was no leak. Then they found it after I brought it back because it started to smell and was clear signs of moisture. Once they fixed the leak, the smell had penetrated basically everything.

I am told they have basically replaced the entire interior (seats, seat cushions, headliner, carpets, etc). Just today they told me it still smells after doing this, now they are going to replace the door panels, which is the only thing they have not replaced.

I requested a buyback under the lemon law on April 2. They told me I would hear back within 15 to 30 days. I have yet to hear back. I call and email Ford and they will not connect me to the buyback department as they "are not customer facing" and they do not provide any explanation as to what the delay is on the buyback claim. Extremely frustrating situation. I am going to be reaching out to a lawyer very soon.

@Ford Motor Company has got to treat customers better than this...

So sorry you're having these issues...it sucks. That being said..it sounds like you're in the same situation I was in and you will get taken care of in the end. It's not a fast process, however.

1. Have you opened a case with the BBB Autoline? If not, that is the first real step...I didn't get anywhere with Ford until I opened a case with the BBB. If you have, you have to continually be on them. It moves at a glacial pace and the communication is very slow. Don't be shy to just continually reach out.
Website if you don't have it: https://bbbprograms.org/programs/all-programs/bbb-autoline/how-bbb-auto-line-works

2. Document EVERYTHING. Dates, mileage, receipts, etc. Keep it all. Every single conversation, write a summary to yourself.

3. Your initial offer from Ford (once you get to that point) will be your state's lemon law exactly. DO NOT accept this. This is the base you'll receive...they are bound to it but you are not. That's true of the entire negotiation process.

4. Get a loaner. I wasn't able to get one from the dealer my truck was at but I got it through another Ford dealer. They'll match the $60/day limit Ford will pay for a rental truck (must be a Ford). They did reimburse me for a few days of a rental via Enterprise @ $100/d also. Again, document it all.

5. Depending on your state...you'll get it all back minus some "wear and tear" for mileage you put on. That is also a negotiable number. I was able to get mine cut down 1/3 of the initial offer, adding $2k to my pocket. I've heard some people get it 1/2 and some even completely waived. I think the lower your mileage the better chance you have at a higher %. My truck was at 12k miles.

6. Don't forget to send them receipts for things such as: Electrician fees for installing your charger(s), any chargers you purchased (I had 2 since I had one installed at my studio), any accessories you added or purchased specifically for the truck (that cannot be removed within reason). I got my window tint, stubby antenna, center console organizer and Builtright seatback release all refunded to me in full.

7. Stand firm, stay calm and be patient. It was hard for me....ha!

In the end the truck cost me less than $4k to drive for a year and all my expenses were reimbursed so really, I probably came out ahead since I have things like a new 50amp circuit in my garage, etc.

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