My experience so far with Ford's Build & Price website

[bmwhitetx]

Skimming the documents (3 of which are dated 2021), I agree with @TaxmanHog. The main thing is that you are not "buying" from Ford nor are you required to complete the purchase. It's just a way for them to give a bunch of info to the dealer you selected so they can procure and sell you the truck you want. It should be fine to move forward IF you have in writing from your dealer that they will refund the deposit if you decide to not take delivery.

It wouldn't hurt to ask about dealer discounts. You are practically guaranteeing them a sale.

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[climateguy]

The lack of certainty of delivery by the proposed limits: 1-2 weeks, 3-4 weeks, June, July ..... etc. this has been a notable failure for the factory to perform in 22/23 so I understand your hesitation.

The Build and Buy statements that a particular vehicle is "in transit" and will be "available" in 3 - 4 weeks is using language that would apply to a vehicle that has already been produced.

The language changes as you scroll down the list. If you select a vehicle that is said to be "available" in July or September for instance, the site says this vehicle "has not been built yet, but is available to reserve with a deposit".

Anyone might assume that the vehicles said to be in transit, available in 3 - 4 weeks have already been produced and have been shipped to a regional holding center. It seems obvious there are no such vehicles.

Online ordering at Ford seems like a concept that may or may not become a thing. Ford says it has cut many billions of dollars out of its proposed EV spending plan.

 

[climateguy]

I'm not that worried about losing a $500 deposit. What I was interested in was getting my hands on a vehicle sooner rather than later.

When the dealer told me their policy was that if the vehicle on order showed up on time and a customer backed out as late as that, they refunded anyway, I tended to believe him, subject to getting this in writing. What I told him was if he produced the vehicle on time and I backed out I expected him to keep the deposit. Otherwise requiring a deposit is a meaningless charade.

With all due respect to that Kansas dealer who made the video about how to use Build and Buy, I no longer believe this is a pathway to getting a vehicle sooner than any other method. I should have bought a 2023 while they were trying to clear them off the lots.

I was considering an agreement to pay a deposit on a 2024 vehicle a dealer had ordered back in October that hadn't arrived yet. It was confirmed to have been built by January. It is presently sitting in a holding pen in Dearborn waiting with a load of other vehicles for Ford to lift its blanket "quality assurance" hold. I objected to a few clauses from the contract he wanted me to sign. There was a clause in there that clearly stated that nothing in the contract bound either party. I couldn't imagine what that was about. I told him I was reconsidering now that I discovered Build and Buy.

 

[bmwhitetx]

The dealer I was working actually claimed that the invoice price he pays to Ford on the vehicle I was talking to him about ordering on Build and Buy is higher than the MSRP he expected me to pay. He said this firmly, with a straight face, as if he expected me to believe it.

I suppose he could be running a public service providing a subsidy to Ford Lightning buyers until he runs out of money....

It is true that for EV's the invoice is the same as MSRP and there are salespeople that believe they make nothing. However Ford compensates dealers up to 10% of MSRP based on certain factors. See this post for how it worked in 2022. Not sure if these are still the factors today.
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-cost-to-customers-by-2-000.12194/post-257817

 

[climateguy]

It is true that for EV's the invoice is the same as MSRP and there are salespeople that believe they make nothing.

Thank you for the link to the post containing that 2022 article.

I think what the salesman said was "our invoice price is $10 more than the MSRP". If what you write is true, then the salesman wasn't actually lying. His implication was that his dealership is losing money on every sale which is why it would be pointless for me to attempt any kind of negotiation. I didn't challenge him at all on this. A senior salesman cannot possibly believe his dealership loses on every sale.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Salesman plays on emotions, a fruitless endeavor on those of us who are highly analytical.

 

[JRT]

If you want a truck and don't trust the site, then go to a dealership you want to work with and order it there. I'm very sure most Ford customers aren't interested in online orders and goto a dealership, which is an advantage vs Tesla IMO.

 

[Lomilar]

I have a 24 lightning ordered through Build and Price, and my understanding talking with the dealer, who is new to the process is that there is no negotiation. What you see on the site is what you get, warts and all. I appreciate that, personally. My question is that my order has been in for 3 weeks and hasn't moved from being 3-4 weeks out. Would be nice to know what is going on now that things have seemingly resumed.

 

[TaxmanHog]

December & January blend dates I'm watching are still stuck at "In Production"

 

[climateguy]

I have a 24 lightning ordered through Build and Price.... ...My question is that my order has been in for 3 weeks and hasn't moved from being 3-4 weeks out. Would be nice to know what is going on now that things have seemingly resumed.

I’m very interested in what happens as you go through the process.

I was about to place an order, then I read the fine print. I clicked on the eCommerce Terms link.

Although there are a number of documents at the above link, I paid most attention to the one entitled “Ford U.S. eCommerce Terms and Conditions” because that is the one the website says I accept by placing the order. I've attached it to this reply.

I had been under the impression I was committing to purchase a vehicle. The Terms said: “By using the Platform, you are not purchasing or leasing a vehicle.” That cleared that up.

I don’t know what putting a deposit down and placing an order in this case means, but it is clear that there is no agreement to purchase until I sign something else when the vehicle shows up on the dealer’s lot: “You will execute a Purchase/Lease Agreement with the Dealer at time of delivery of the vehicle”

Also, I had thought I was dealing with Ford. “Your agreement to purchase or lease the vehicle (“Purchase/Lease Agreement”) will be with your Dealer and not with Ford....”

And there is this: “The final price and terms of your purchase or lease are established between you and the Dealer and will be reflected in the Purchase/Lease Agreement”

I was still interested in using the website, because vehicles almost exactly like what I am looking for are said to be “available in 3 - 4 weeks”. Obviously, after seeing these Terms, I needed to talk to a dealer. I talked to three.

What I have not been able to understand is why I cannot get any information from Ford or any of the dealers as to where one of these vehicles is or if it has even been built.

The Ford reps I was able to reach with my cold calls had no idea there even was a Build & Price website selling vehicles that were supposedly “in transit” to dealers, set to arrive in “3 - 4 weeks”. That seemed really odd.

The Terms spell out who should know: “Dealer is responsible for all information presented in connection with the Order Process, including presenting accurate vehicle inventory through the Platform, and you should confirm vehicle availability with the Dealer”

The dealers couldn't confirm anything.

What the dealers could tell me about were vehicles they had ordered themselves. They could look online, where Ford was telling them that even though some of their ordered vehicles had been on order since last October and were confirmed to have been built by January, they were all sitting in Dearborn, subject to “quality assurance” holds.

I'm not sure what I will do. Good luck with your quest to obtain a Lightning. I'm very interested in hearing any details you wish to share.

 

[SMMD]

I’m very interested in what happens as you go through the process.

I was about to place an order, then I read the fine print. I clicked on the eCommerce Terms link.

Although there are a number of documents at the above link, I paid most attention to the one entitled “Ford U.S. eCommerce Terms and Conditions” because that is the one the website says I accept by placing the order. I've attached it to this reply.

I had been under the impression I was committing to purchase a vehicle. The Terms said: “By using the Platform, you are not purchasing or leasing a vehicle.” That cleared that up.

I don’t know what putting a deposit down and placing an order in this case means, but it is clear that there is no agreement to purchase until I sign something else when the vehicle shows up on the dealer’s lot: “You will execute a Purchase/Lease Agreement with the Dealer at time of delivery of the vehicle”

Also, I had thought I was dealing with Ford. “Your agreement to purchase or lease the vehicle (“Purchase/Lease Agreement”) will be with your Dealer and not with Ford....”

And there is this: “The final price and terms of your purchase or lease are established between you and the Dealer and will be reflected in the Purchase/Lease Agreement”

I was still interested in using the website, because vehicles almost exactly like what I am looking for are said to be “available in 3 - 4 weeks”. Obviously, after seeing these Terms, I needed to talk to a dealer. I talked to three.

What I have not been able to understand is why I cannot get any information from Ford or any of the dealers as to where one of these vehicles is or if it has even been built.

The Ford reps I was able to reach with my cold calls had no idea there even was a Build & Price website selling vehicles that were supposedly “in transit” to dealers, set to arrive in “3 - 4 weeks”. That seemed really odd.

The Terms spell out who should know: “Dealer is responsible for all information presented in connection with the Order Process, including presenting accurate vehicle inventory through the Platform, and you should confirm vehicle availability with the Dealer”

The dealers couldn't confirm anything.

What the dealers could tell me about were vehicles they had ordered themselves. They could look online, where Ford was telling them that even though some of their ordered vehicles had been on order since last October and were confirmed to have been built by January, they were all sitting in Dearborn, subject to “quality assurance” holds.

I'm not sure what I will do. Good luck with your quest to obtain a Lightning. I'm very interested in hearing any details you wish to share.

I think you are trying to apply logic to a situation that has no logic at all. Frustrating at best. The more you want clarity, the more distressed you will become. I’m not an old timer on this forum, but having gone through the online buying experience in mid 2023, none of this sounds much different from 2023 (or from 2022 from what I can infer). In order to get your desired result, maximum patience (and not higher cognitive/executive functioning) will be required.

 

[Lomilar]

Absolutely. The dealers are being constrained by terms between Ford E and them about what they can do (get vehicles) and can't do (negotiate with the terminal customer). In talking with the dealer to put down my deposit, it's still them that are doing the final sale, but their relationship with Ford E and whether they get the truck from the regional pool seems to depend on how they honor the order.

I don't have it in hand so maybe there will be a final reckoning, but it's very different from every other dealer purchase I've done. I think this was all done in response to how the dealers marked up early lightnings. Ford E gets to do things differently.

Happy to be wrong about any of this.

 

[climateguy]

whether they get the truck from the regional pool seems to depend on how they honor the order.

I'm wondering if there even is a regional pool. If there was, why can't a dealer check with whoever is managing it?

I think you are trying to apply logic to a situation that has no logic at all.

I'm looking for the Queen of Hearts, hoping she will shout "Off with their heads!"

 

[Lomilar]

Regarding "who should know" and the general delays for the 24 Lightnings, I'm trying to figure out if any '24 model years have been delivered out of build and price, because I've been stuck at the "3-4 weeks out" for 3 weeks now. Dealer doesn't have any additional information that they have shared. I think I've seen one price sheet for a '24 that was being sold by a dealer.

Still more questions than answers. C'est la vie. I'm expecting a call out of the blue -- "your truck is here."

 

[climateguy]

I ordered a 2024 Flash using Build & Price two days ago. I got an instant, probably automated, reply: "I'll need to get with a sales consultant to check its availability. They will reach out shortly".

No one has contacted me yet. On Build & Price, submitting your credit card info and clicking on "Place Order" just submits an "Order Request" to the dealer. When the dealer has decided to "accept" the "request", the transaction is submitted to the bank. The fine print on Ford's eCommerce Terms states that only then does it become an "Order".

The deposit payment has not been submitted to my bank yet.

And, the vehicle I selected is still listed as "available" on the Build & Price website. (I used my hack of examining the internet address of the details page of the vehicle I selected. The VIN appears at the end of the address). According to the Long McArthur video on how Build & Price is supposed to work, even if you just put a vehicle in your "cart", until you remove it or leave the site without placing an order, the vehicle is not listed as available.

Curiouser and curiouser, cried Alice

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