NY Times Op-Ed by Ezra Dyer: Ford Is Leaving Tesla in the Dust

[Jim Lewis]

I think you get one or two free reads of Times articles a month. Sorry if it's behind a paywall for you.

Seems like Dyer basically doesn't like Musk and thinks Musk's behavior and personality will eventually sink the ship. He confesses to initially being a big fan of Musk and Tesla. He talks about the Mafia-like work atmosphere at Tesla (as if everyone's afraid there will be recriminations from Musk if they say the wrong thing).

Opinion | Ford Is Leaving Tesla in the Dust - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

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[Regular150]

When we take personal offense to Musk we become jaded to his brilliance. When Toyota CEOs and Engineers are in professional awe at Tesla's improvement speed, that's all you need to know to get your attitude straight. I have never had a Tesla, had 28 new Fords including Two MachEs and a Lightning but, I would never bet against Tesla or Space X. My personal opinions takes a back seat to proven Innovation. Fun article though.

 

[F150ROD]

When we take personal offense to Musk we become jaded to his brilliance. When Toyota CEOs and Engineers are in professional awe at Tesla's improvement speed, that's all you need to know to get your attitude straight. I have never had a Tesla, had 28 new Fords including Two MachEs and a Lightning but, I would never bet against Tesla or Space X. My personal opinions takes a back seat to proven Innovation. Fun article though.

Yes, the engineers at Tesla are superb. Unfortunately, I believe they are sometimes held back by Musk, , meaning ideas other Musks aren't welcome. Ford should try to steal any and all their software engineers.

 

[COrocket]

It’ll be interesting to see the Cybertruck and Lightning go head to head in sales and specs, but Ford is hardly leaving Tesla in the dust. If you ignore Elons erratic behavior, the company is rapidly innovating and improving their cars constantly, and the Monroe tear down videos are eye opening to see how fast they’ve advanced in the past few years.

I think when the Cybertruck launches it’ll be the most efficient, refined, software integrated EV truck platform out there by a mile, and Teslas sales margins have potential to put extreme pricing pressure on Ford and others. The big question is how well the Cybertruck exoskeleton design will work in the field and if truck buyers are receptive to the radical design.

The Lightning is a EV derivative of a F-150 platform that has years of testing and perfecting behind it, so I think the product hardware is solid, and was the deciding factor for me. The big question for ford is the EV power train performance long term and if they can get the software bugs worked out. If they can do this I think Ford is going to be in good shape. The recent battery production hold and Fordpass/OTA update issues are evident they still have a lot of work to do, and software is something they trail Tesla greatly in.

Overall I think both trucks have a pretty long list of strengths and weaknesses but I don’t see Tesla going away anytime soon. I’m looking forward to running our Lightning and Model 3 for many years to come.

 

[lightspeed]

NYT writers are morons.

 

[Jim Lewis]

NTY writers are morons.

Dyer is actually a columnist for Car & Driver, just a guest Op-Ed writer for the NY Times. Perhaps he figured his article would get more attention in the Times than Car & Driver... Just joking, but maybe Musk buys Car & Driver and tanks Dyer!

 

[lightspeed]

Dyer is actually a columnist for Car & Driver, just a guest Op-Ed writer for the NY Times. Perhaps he figured his article would get more attention in the Times than Car & Driver...

Yeah I did see that, but they published it on NYT so he's a NYT (guest) writer. Doesn't matter either way, but that article is too dumb to even bother refuting.

I don't care who wins the EV wars, but Ford is not beating Tesla in EVs. If they do in the future then great, but their ability to manufacture with quality is questionable.

 

[kwalt21]

Yeah I did see that, but they published it on NYT so he's a NYT (guest) writer. Doesn't matter either way, but that article is too dumb to even bother refuting.

I don't care who wins the EV wars, but Ford is not beating Tesla in EVs. If they do in the future then great, but their ability to manufacture with quality is questionable.

You're talking Tesla when it comes to manufacturing quality, right? Because if you're saying Tesla is better at quality control that's laughable.

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

i can't get to the article without paying...

 

[Blainestang]

You're talking Tesla when it comes to manufacturing quality, right? Because if you're saying Tesla is better at quality control that's laughable.

Ford quality control isn't anything to write home about either. If Quality Control was a main deciding factor, I certainly wouldn't buy either Ford or Tesla.

 

[kwalt21]

Ford quality control isn't anything to write home about either. If Quality Control was a main deciding factor, I certainly wouldn't buy either Ford or Tesla.

100% agree with you!

 

[BedFullOfElectronZ]

Tesla's *engineers* are brilliant, no doubt. So are Ford's. I just got back from a 400-mile road trip in our F-150 Lightning, which included an unexpected near-white-out snowstorm, and the truck performed brilliantly. I give Elon Musk full credit for creating the modern EV industry, without which the F-150 Lightning would not exist. But these are long-term visions, not the nose-to-the-grindstone innovation that you see in modern Tesla (and Ford) products. I'm a computer engineer, and I can tell you that the day-to-day orders that Elon is giving to the workers at Twitter show that he doesn't know a damn thing about software development...real software engineers re-post his orders just for the laugh value. And don't get me started on Elon's political tone-deafness. Visionary? Yes. Created an environment where practical innovation can flourish? Sure. Motivated the best-and-brightest to come work for him, and put in the 80-100 hours/week to make it happen? Yes, in the past. Not so much at Twitter. Brilliant detailed design engineer? No, not even close.

 

[luebri]

Tesla's *engineers* are brilliant, no doubt. So are Ford's. I just got back from a 400-mile road trip in our F-150 Lightning, which included an unexpected near-white-out snowstorm, and the truck performed brilliantly. I give Elon Musk full credit for creating the modern EV industry, without which the F-150 Lightning would not exist. But these are long-term visions, not the nose-to-the-grindstone innovation that you see in modern Tesla (and Ford) products. I'm a computer engineer, and I can tell you that the day-to-day orders that Elon is giving to the workers at Twitter show that he doesn't know a damn thing about software development...real software engineers re-post his orders just for the laugh value. And don't get me started on Elon's political tone-deafness. Visionary? Yes. Created an environment where practical innovation can flourish? Sure. Motivated the best-and-brightest to come work for him, and put in the 80-100 hours/week to make it happen? Yes, in the past. Not so much at Twitter. Brilliant detailed design engineer? No, not even close.

Visionaries often are the ones not afraid to ask the consensus “dumb questions” that a typical “brilliant design engineer” would never think to or be brave enough to.

This article is just a hit piece about someone triggered that Elon doesn’t comply with the consensus political or societal thoughts or using your words is that he is “tone deaf”.

As someone who never owned a Tesla or Tesla stock (other than potentially inside of index funds) I had nothing against Tesla before 2020 when Elon became a bit more polarizing and well since I respect his rebelliousness and willingness to challenge the societal narrative of the day, I have grown to appreciate him more.

However, unlike this articles author, I know damn well that anyone’s political or societal slant has very little to do with whether Ford or Tesla is making better EVs.

The stock market would tell you pretty starkly what the likely answer is though.

 

[Theo1000]

Not sure about Ford leaving TSLA in the dust but eventually TSLA will get tired of making cars. Ford will never get tired of making cars. TSLA survives by every couple of years dipping into the market for another $5 Billion stock sale. People forget this. Eventually that will come to a stop. Lets see how they do then....

Making cars is just a tough brutal low margin business. Many have attempted and succeed for a while then run out of juice. Don't see this changing. Tough to survive the price wars...

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