Plug-In America Post: The Congressional Review Act and its potential impact on EV tax credits

[chl]

Elon wants the subsidies to go away, because Tesla is about the only company that would still make ev’s without them.
But don’t think that would keep China at bay. How long did it take China to take over the Russian automobile market (I believe over 50% market share)? 2-3 years? With combustion engine powered vehicles.
At any rate- this won’t happen. Congress can’t agree on anything- for better or worse.

Chinese EV's all all over the place now - except the US.
Even selling them in Uruguay South America according to friends.
Big presence in Africa too.

Tariffs on Solar panels of 50% and on Chinese EVs of 100% are not helping reduce greenhouse gas emissions from American's - very counter-productive from an environmental point, I understand the purpose is to give American workers and companies a leg up, but in the long run, at what cost to the planet?

And I thought Tesla/Musk's mission in the beginning had something to do with saving the planet, didn't it?

Maybe these geniuses think Mars is a viable option instead. That's a long shot.

Amazing to me how so many smart people can have so little common sense.

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[chl]

I agree and disagree! Had it not been for the tax credit and the massive rebates Ford was offering earlier this year I probably would not have purchased mine! I was looking for something more economical than my 2016 expedition EL (so I am used to driving a larger vehicle )and was looking for a truck. I was actually leaning toward the Maverick hybrid. I am certainly glad I bought this truck because it is awesome and I am sure I am much happier than I would have been with the smaller maverick! I know that this is probably not the same reasoning that other people would use.

I agree.
The tax credit made a big impact on my bottom line price when the 2023 Lightning Pro's with plenty of options (max tow, etc.) fell below $50k. The value for my hard earned dollars became irresistible.

If they had been the originally promised $39K (as was the Cybertruck) the tax credits would have had a huge impact.

A smaller EV truck priced around $30k before tax credit would have sold like hotcakes.

Obviously some of it was out of their control, the COVID shut down and resulting supply chain stoppage.

But now things are moving again, and battery prices are getting back to the downward trend they were on before the pandemic.

Everyone should write their representatives and tell them not to do it. Of course how much effect it will have compared to big oil money is hard to say.

One of the biggest proponents of EV was Sen. Lamar Alexander from Tenn., and a big hater is coal magnet Sen. Manchin of West Virginia, so it cuts across party lines sometimes.

 

[EFG]

I have to agree with Scorpio, the Lightning is my 3rd EV (still have a Bolt). I sold my gas powered Ford Pickup and went in to buy a Maverick hybrid. Walked out with the Lightning for 5k more and 24k off MSRP and options (including the 7.5k). I NEVER would have bought it without this MASSIVE level of discounting.

Within 3 weeks, some jerk keyed my passenger side and front doors. $2790 later I am back on the road after a 2 door repaint. almost 1k for a camera and sensor realign from having to remove the passenger mirror for the repaint. C R A Z Y ! ! ! ! Watch out if you need something done body work wise. Insurance paid all but my $500 deductible.

 

[chl]

I have to agree with Scorpio, the Lightning is my 3rd EV (still have a Bolt). I sold my gas powered Ford Pickup and went in to buy a Maverick hybrid. Walked out with the Lightning for 5k more and 24k off MSRP and options (including the 7.5k). I NEVER would have bought it without this MASSIVE level of discounting.

Within 3 weeks, some jerk keyed my passenger side and front doors. $2790 later I am back on the road after a 2 door repaint. almost 1k for a camera and sensor realign from having to remove the passenger mirror for the repaint. C R A Z Y ! ! ! ! Watch out if you need something done body work wise. Insurance paid all but my $500 deductible.

Haters gonna hate - terrible!

I have been lucky I guess, a 2012 Nissan Leaf since Dec 2011 - only had verbal abuse by guys driving Suburbans and other gas guzzlers, nothing physical...yet...knock on wood.

I told the Suburban driver he was being a gas-hole, and sped off burning up electrons like crazy.

I do have security cameras on all sides of my house and park the cars where they can be seen on camera.

I also put my key FOBs inside home-made aluminum foil wrappers - a neighbors SUV was stolen by someone who apparently cloned their FOB and followed them home, coming back in the middle of the night to drive off with it without any alarms going off.

I read that has happened to a lot of ICE F-150s because they are popular to steal.

There is always somebody ruining things for everyone else...

 

[Jim Lewis]

A potpourri of thoughts here. For those against subsidies, the Interstate Highway system is no longer entirely financed by gasoline taxes and vehicle registration fees. It's required a significant subsidy of general funds to remain ~solvent. The oil and gas industries in the United States have been subsidized by various federal tax breaks for decades because of the risk and cost of exploration and the importance of these resources to the U.S. economy and energy security. Funds at some level of government are often spent to steer people in a direction that might be better for the long-term good of society, even though folks might prefer to do something else for short-term gain or pleasure. The anti-smoking movement, both at a governmental and cultural level, has had a tremendous influence in our lifetimes. So perhaps one could consider EVs just a kind of "anti-smoking" movement that hasn't caught on yet for various reasons. It's very expensive to join the movement, and it's really not very pollution-free until there's more dependable clean energy to generate electricity. A whole bunch of money is being spent worldwide to subsidize nuclear fusion research. The intent of that subsidy is obviously a "non-smoking" future for the planet. Should folks in Congress roll back that funding, too?! It's certainly not paying its way! And if it succeeds, it will certainly undermine the oil and gas industry through its government-subsidized development. A durable solid-state battery (with a lifetime of 8 to 10 thousand full-charge cycles) that can fully charge in 10 to 15 minutes, if one ever comes along, will likely make the whole subsidy question moot. Hope I live to see that.

 

[chl]

Two ways of thinking: short term and long term.
Two ways of incentivizing: Carrot and stick.

Subsidizing EVs in the short term is for a long term benefit - saving the planet and human civilization from self-destruction.

It's a carrot.

Taxing carbon emissions would be a stick. It is long overdue though.

There are a lot of cheaper ways to provide the planet with all the energy it needs than burning fossil fuels (which are a limited resource anyway) or technologies in development (fusion). Solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, hydro, combined with battery storage where needed. And they are available NOW.

It will involve economic displacement/disruption to change.
That happens with progress.
That takes some time.

There was a temporary lag in EV sales earlier this year, but that seems to have faded.
In my opinion, the ability to get up front the $7500 tax credit played a big role in the turn around, along with price competition and reductions.

I waited for them.

The Chinese are selling inexpensive EVs all around the world now. They have a 100% tariff in the US, a tax/disincentive to buy them which is supposed to help boost the US EV makers and spur job growth in the sector. It is a delicate balance.

US EV makers need to make their EVs more affordable to promote widespread adoption.

If you follow any of the posts about long distance travel, the infrastructure improvement is making that possible more and more each day.

Range improvements through better engineering need to be implemented as well, along the lines of what Aptera is doing in there yet to be mass produced vehicle, with aerodynamic and material engineering improvements.

The glass is half full.

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